Sharper after stropping?

[shadowspawn]

So I finally got a strop in good shape donated to me by my grandpa's barber. Started using it to strop my blades. Interestingly, rather than feeling duller after removing the wire edge, it feels sharper now. Admittedly I finish on a pretty coarse grit (about 400 grit) but from what I've read (and what I've experienced prior to using this strop), removing the wire edge supposedly makes "sharp" knives with wire edges suddenly perform like a dull knife not the other way around. It doesn't look like the strop has any compound on it and I am using the same knife that I've been using for years now (as it is my EDC). It is a cheapo knife (I believe I got it for only about $8) as I am constantly on a budget and will not risk losing any of my better knives as they would be expensive to replace. Any idea what's going on here?

 

[freedoom]

aren't strops supposed to make your knife sharper?

 

[me2]

I'm not sure where you read stropping makes knives act duller, but I'd recommend some different reading material. I also recommend removing a burr with the stone, not a strop, unless it's a power strop, like a leather belt with compound on a belt sander. I've never had any success removing a burr with a plain, unloaded, hand powered strop. Of course I've never had much success removing a burr by drawing the edge through a board either, which is another commonly recommended method.

 

[shadowspawn]

I should have clarified. What I'd read is that a number of people who thought they had wicked sharp edges (edges that could slice toilet paper etc.) only had such edges because of a good wire edge. Once that wire edge broke down though, the knife became dull and needed to be honed again. For the longest time, I'd been using only the sharpening materials I had available to strop. It was a pretty coarse grit too (I believe the finest I used was 600 grit). Now, in addition to stropping on the medium and newspaper, I started using this old strop my grandpa's barber gave to me. I noticed an immediate difference in performance. It definitely felt less toothy and actually did the jobs a toothier edge would be better for more effectively than before stropping which was something I wasn't expecting from what I had read (and experienced with some of my previous stop experience).

 

[pwet]

what you read is people thinking they had a nice clean and sharp edge but it dulled from light use because the wire folded. removing the wire while honing doesn't dull the edge.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Stropping properly should always improve sharpness. Otherwise, there'd be little reason or incentive to do it. It is useful for just removing wire edges and burrs, but that doesn't have to come at the expense of sharpness. In fact, it should enhance it. If an edge gets duller from stropping, it means technique is inconsistent or sloppy (bad angle control, or too much pressure). Bad technique will blunt the edge (always, always; on stones or strops).

 

[Bastid]

Stropping properly should always improve sharpness. Otherwise, there'd be little reason or incentive to do it. It is useful for just removing wire edges and burrs, but that doesn't have to come at the expense of sharpness. In fact, it should enhance it. If an edge gets duller from stropping, it means technique is inconsistent or sloppy (bad angle control, or too much pressure). Bad technique will blunt the edge (always, always; on stones or strops).

Short sweet and 100% right on the money. It just takes a little time and practice and then it becomes engrained. Keep plugging and eventually you will get a "feel" when it comes to a using a stone (coffee cup, edge of a car window etc) and a strop.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I should have clarified. What I'd read is that a number of people who thought they had wicked sharp edges (edges that could slice toilet paper etc.) only had such edges because of a good wire edge. Once that wire edge broke down though, the knife became dull and needed to be honed again. For the longest time, I'd been using only the sharpening materials I had available to strop. It was a pretty coarse grit too (I believe the finest I used was 600 grit). Now, in addition to stropping on the medium and newspaper, I started using this old strop my grandpa's barber gave to me. I noticed an immediate difference in performance. It definitely felt less toothy and actually did the jobs a toothier edge would be better for more effectively than before stropping which was something I wasn't expecting from what I had read (and experienced with some of my previous stop experience).

This is often true, and why I don't rely on shaving sharpness (particularly) as a real 'test' of an edge. It has to be sharp AND durable, in order to be worthwhile. If it shaves and makes a few slices in light paper, OK. But then it needs to do some more 'work', like cutting cardboard or cutting into some hardwood a few times, before you know if the sharpness is just a wire edge or not. Draw-cutting into a piece of hardwood, for 3-5 passes, is a great way to remove or strip off wire edges. Most wires won't survive that. But, if the edge behind the wire is in good shape, you should still see excellent cutting performance afterwards. That means the edge is real, and it's strong.

 

[shadowspawn]

@obsessed: How about a damaged strop? The one I had before this was pretty busted up really. It also seemed like it was in severe disuse as the leather was stiff and starting to crack in areas. I tried taking other's advice and massaging it with my fingers to try to lubricate it with the hand oils but it was still pretty stiff after that was done.

@bastid: I've been freehanding for a decent amount of time now (first on stones, now on sandpaper) and, generally speaking, I've got a decent feel for pressure and angles when I'm grinding/sharpening/honing. I once gave someone's rusty old Ontario machete a complete edge makeover (took hours on 100 grit paper to get it to a nice smooth edge). No scratch marks on the blade except for the edge and little to no convex so angles aren't an issue. The only thing that comes to my mind is the strop itself.

@obsessed again: Would that apply to all knives of any edge angle or would it only apply to harder steel knives/knives with more obtuse bevels? Generally speaking, I EDC 2 knives (one with a very obtuse bevel which I barely touch for maintentance and one with a very acute bevel for finer cutting that I hone maybe twice a month) both of which are probably made of a pretty soft steel (both are labeled as 440 Stainless and cost very little out of pocket making me assume 440A). I do have an AUS-8 CRKT but that knife stays at home. It's too expensive a knife (on my budget) for me to risk losing and having to replace.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

@obsessed: How about a damaged strop? The one I had before this was pretty busted up really. It also seemed like it was in severe disuse as the leather was stiff and starting to crack in areas. I tried taking other's advice and massaging it with my fingers to try to lubricate it with the hand oils but it was still pretty stiff after that was done.

Sounds like that strop needs some leather conditioner. A product called 'Lexol' has been highly recommended for that, around here. I'm sure other conditioners for leather would also help.

@obsessed again: Would that apply to all knives of any edge angle or would it only apply to harder steel knives/knives with more obtuse bevels? Generally speaking, I EDC 2 knives (one with a very obtuse bevel which I barely touch for maintentance and one with a very acute bevel for finer cutting that I hone maybe twice a month) both of which are probably made of a pretty soft steel (both are labeled as 440 Stainless and cost very little out of pocket making me assume 440A). I do have an AUS-8 CRKT but that knife stays at home. It's too expensive a knife (on my budget) for me to risk losing and having to replace.

Obtuse bevels are an unknown (how obtuse are they?). There's a limit to how much fine slicing a really thick bevel can do. If it isn't slicing like you'd expect or want it to, then it probably needs a shallower edge angle, at least. There's an inherent advantage in putting a shallower edge angle on a blade, in that it's much easier to feel the resulting wider bevel on a hone or strop. That makes it much easier to sharpen and maintain.

And the 'cheaper' steels are a variable too. But, if yours actually is 440A, it is very capable of taking a very fine edge. It's not the most durable of steels, but it sharpens up very easily, to hair-popping at least. It convexes beautifully, which adds some strength to the edge on this softish steel. I actually like 440A because it's very easy to put a fine edge on, and very easy to maintain on a strop with some fine compound (Simichrome works very well with it).