Sharpmaker advice -- which angle to use?

C

cognitivefun

Joined
Oct 24, 2004
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30 degree or 40 degree?

I am sure it depends on the knife.

For a thick blade or a thin blade, how do I know which angle to use?

Thanks for any help you can give.
 
The bevel angle that a blade can sustain without having the edge deform is dependent on the hardness of the steel. Harder steel allows more acute angles. I'd recommend you choose an angle similar to what the knife has now. The Sharpmaker isn't a good tool for regrinding angles. Think of it as a maintenance tool and use the angle you have. If the angle you have doesn't match one of the angles on the Sharpmaker very closely, you can adjust by tilting the blade one way or another. Happy sharpening.
 
Use the 40 degree as your default. Use the 30 degree on a very thin blade with good steel that you plan to use for slicing, rather than general utility. A kitchen knife can take 30 degrees.

Another trick with thicker blades is to use 40 degrees on the edge, then follow up with 30 degrees, which will not sharpen the cutting edge itself, but will narrow the transition between the cutting edge bevel and the flat of the blade. This will reduce drag as the blade slices deeply into whatever medium you're cutting. It gives the effect of a "poor man's convex edge".
 
DAMN you, Esav. I was happy with Sal's video instruction to start with the 30 and follow with the 40. In fact, I had to PROVE my own misconception wrong by trying JUST the 30 but it is actually SHARPER to follow with the 40.

BUT

Now you have introduced the TRANSITIONAL edge ...transition.

AAAARRRRGHHH!!!!

You should be publicly STROPPED!

:p
 
Hmmmm. Yesterday I brought my Sharpmaker to my in-law's house and sharpened three kitchen knives and one "penknife". For the kitchen knives I did 30, then 40 and it seemed to work well. Still experimenting. So I guess I'll try 40 first, then 30? Good idea!
 
Esav Benyamin said:
30 then 40, or 40 then 30, give the same result :)
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Well - most of the time you need to get the primary bevel under 40 before you can use 40 - so use 30 first or reprofile with something else to get the angel under 40 before you finalize with 40 degrees.
 
I have been following the video instructions. 30 degree back bevel then 40 degree edge. On a few knives that were particulary beat up I ran it through the Lansky clamp system at 25 to reprofile then used the Sharpmaker at 30 then finished off with 40. My buddy had a POS swap meet knife in 440C with an edge that could be rubbed against flesh without cutting. I got it shaving sharp with my Lansky/Sharpmaker combo.
 
I usually go 30 degrees, but I use my EdgePro as it's much faster, and then I put on a 40 degree edge with the Sharpmaker. This makes it easy to touch up and the 40 degree edge is more durable than a 30 degree edge and still pops hairs off my arm with ease.
 
stevekt said:
I have been following the video instructions. 30 degree back bevel then 40 degree edge. On a few knives that were particulary beat up I ran it through the Lansky clamp system at 25 to reprofile then used the Sharpmaker at 30 then finished off with 40. My buddy had a POS swap meet knife in 440C with an edge that could be rubbed against flesh without cutting. I got it shaving sharp with my Lansky/Sharpmaker combo.
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How does that work? You need to get the angle below 20 per side to be able to finish up with 20 per side. or do you mean 25 degrees inclusive? My lansky system only uses whole numbers.

By using 25 per side you are creating a 50 degree inclusive angle. that means the 30 degree sharpmaker rods have an ever tougher task ahead of them, and a lot of shoulder to remove.

I think a lot of folks are sharpening the shoulder without realizing it. I have recieved a few knives via trade that were supposedly sharpened or touched up on the sharpmaker - but the 40 degree (20 per side) setting was only touching the shoulders of the edge. I had to reprofile using my diamond lansky to slightly less than 20 per side before the 40 degree rods would be able to "touch-up" that edge.

You need to have an angle of less than 15 or 20 per side in order for the 30 or 40 degree sharpmaker rods to touch the edge. Anything greater than than and they will touch the shoulders only.
 
The goal, of course, is to get as much performance as possible, which means using the lower angle (30 degrees). But, you have to balance that off against robustness: depending on the knife and how you're using it, you might have to back off to the 40 degree angle if the blade starts chipping or rolling too much.

My general rule is: For folders, you should be sharpening mostly at 30 degrees. Sharpen the entire knife at 30 degrees -- raise a burr, grind it off, finish it at 30 degrees. Then, put it on the 40 degree stones and take a couple of light (no more than the weight of the knife itself) strokes per side, to refine the final edge and remove the remnants of the burr.

Again, for a folder, this edge will give you great performance, and hold up just fine. [Note that Esav seems to be a little more conservative than me on this]. This is the highest performance edge possible on the Sharpmaker, and I do not back off this unless I see that the particular knife I'm using is getting its edge damaged ... in which case, I'm tempted to suggest you just get a better knife :)

If I do want a thicker edge, a next step might be to go with the 30 degree angles, and using magic marker on the edge, take the edge down until all the magic marker disappears, but before a burr gets raised. Then put it on the 40 degree hone to raise a burr and finish up.
 
Spyderco Shabaria and Camillus Maxx, 30 degrees. (Maxx used as a kitchen knife.) Scandinavians, convex blades with minimal or no secondary bevels, 30 degrees. But knives going outdoors, for use on wood, 40.

There is also some difference depending on how polished the final edge gets. If I go to 40 I won't often bother using the white rods, except on my Sebenzas.
 
sting7777 said:
How does that work? You need to get the angle below 20 per side to be able to finish up with 20 per side. or do you mean 25 degrees inclusive? My lansky system only uses whole numbers.
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Whoops. Sorry. The Lansky counts half the angle and the Sharpmaker counts the whole angle. I guess that would explain a lot of my sharpening difficulties! :D
 
Anyone who isn't 100% sure about their angles etc. just use the marker trick. One quick swipe along the existing bevel on each side and then a quick run on each side on the sharpmaker and you'll see if you are actually sharpening the edge or just the shoulder.
 
I have a recently received Dozier master skinner, and have ordered this sharpener, what angle are the Doziers sharpened at? Is the 30 degree good for this particular knife? Thanks.
 
ibowhuntaz said:
I have a recently received Dozier master skinner, and have ordered this sharpener, what angle are the Doziers sharpened at? Is the 30 degree good for this particular knife? Thanks.
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the doziers are factory sharpened at 15 per side (30 inclusive). I would use the 40 degree rods to touch them up as you will put a slightly more obtuse microbevel on the very edge.

This is how I sharpen all of my knives. The Doziers take a nice edge - good luck!
 
Thank you Sting7777, so will this process give me a sharper edge, a more durable edge or both? I will actually be using it for skinning, or cutting meat. This is by far the best knife I have ever owned and the sharpest so I really want to take good care of it as well as get good use from it.
 
ibowhuntaz said:
Thank you Sting7777, so will this process give me a sharper edge, a more durable edge or both? I will actually be using it for skinning, or cutting meat. This is by far the best knife I have ever owned and the sharpest so I really want to take good care of it as well as get good use from it.
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You could use the 30 degree rods if their 30 and your sharpmaker's 30 are indeed identical or close enough - but then every time you touch up the blade you are removing material alon ghte entire secondary bevel. By using the 40 degree rods you are putting a slightly stronger final edge on the blade (more obtuse angle) but it will still slice well due to the 30 degree secondary bevel. That 40 degree bevel also makes it easier to sharpen and touch up the final edge as you only remove material from the very edge - not the entire bevel.

Microbevels are where its at :D and IMO are the secret to easily sharpening the "super" steels like D2 and S30V... touching up that microbevel is cake with any steel. Now when you get a blade thats at 40+ fomr the factory - thats whe you need to invest in a diamond hone system to get it under 40. But once you reprofile that one time - everything is easy.
 
I do the microbevel trick with my Frosts Mora. NO WAY am i removing that much metal each time, though I will have to, one day..
 
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