Sharpmaker & DMT XC/XXC Hones...

KarlMaldensNose

KarlMaldensNose

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Feb 3, 2009
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Yes, I know this topic has been covered ad nauseum, and opinions vary on this, but I'll ask anyway.

What are the least amount of Dia-sharps I can get away with for reprofiling duties (CPM M4, CPM D2, CPM S30V, etc.) and which grits would they/it be? Hey, they're expensive! I have a Sharpmaker with diamond, brown, and white rods. So could I just buy an XC Dia-sharp for metal hogging then move to the diamond rods, then medium browns, and finally fine whites and stropping? Or would I need a Coarse or Medium Dia-sharp before the Sharpmaker? I realize that in order to finish with the Sharpmaker I'd have to initially set a 30 or 40 degree angle on the XC Dia-sharp.

P.S. I just read my response/post and realize that it might be considered thread hijacking. I apologize if it is and welcome it being appropriately moved.
 
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You could definitely get by with the XC and then the Sharpmaker hones you have. (The Sharpmaker's diamond hones are about a 400 grit.)
(Of course, over time you probably won't stop there...but you could.)
 
(Moved to its own thread on your behalf so you need not fear a thread hijack...)
 
X-course or just course will be enough. With your set-up it may be better to start with course" less of a jump in grits" then hit the sharpmaker. If you feel you need a more course grit to start with, get some wet dry.
 
I'm specifically wondering about how the Sharpmaker diamond rods are rated, which is apparently more coarse than DMT Extra Coarse stones by 8 microns. That doesn't seem right. If it is, then I guess I should be going XXC for reprofiling instead of XC. I've wanted to avoid XXC for various reasons, thinking that XC was sufficient (and it probably is), but that would actually be regressing from using my Sharpmaker diamonds for reprofiling, which I find frustrating and almost futile.

And I have no idea where I got this chart from.
 
XXC is the way to go, why did you want to avoid it?
 
Cost. I think XXC is only available in the larger, more expensive size stone. Also... cost:D. If I start with XXC, as opposed to XC, then I'll likely need an intermediate step requiring another costly Dia-sharp stone (probably Coarse?) before getting to my Sharpmaker browns and whites to finish.

I was thinking if I start with XC that I could get away with jumping to Sharpmaker browns. But upon closer consideration of this plan I realize that the scratches would be too deep after even XC to go straight to Sharpmaker browns.

I suppose if I want to finish on my Sharpmaker rods that I can't avoid another Dia-sharp grit after starting with either XXC or XC. It's either XXC, C, browns, whites, strop. Or XC, M, browns, whites, strop.

I was hoping you'd jump in, knifenut1013!
 
You'd be perfectly fine reprofiling on an XX course at say, 12 degrees per side, then using your sharpmaker to microbevel at 15 degrees per side. Use the whites for touch-ups, browns if the microbevel gets pretty dull, and reprofile on the XX course again when the microbevel isn't so micro. That's the exact process I use on the Military in my pocket, except I go up to UF rods on the SM.

That would save you so much time compared to polishing up an entire bevel. Otherwise you'd spend much more time grinding, cleaning stones, setting up different rods etc.

If that's not what you want then an XX or X coarse for hogging and a fine DMT for polishing is a good setup. Personally I wouldn't want to use the sharpmaker to polish a full bevel near the edge, too time consuming. If you're worried about the jump in grits a few sheets of sandpaper can go a long way, but they certainly won't last as long as the DMT's. Their stones may be expensive but they'll last a looooooong time.
 
Never used the sharpmaker diamond rods, and have read some rather mixed reviews on them. You can always see what wet dry will work for you, because The truth is re-profiling is not needed as much as you might think.
 
winbag338 said:
The truth is re-profiling is not needed as much as you might think.
Click to expand...

Reprofiling, depending on the initial geometry and the media being cut, can increase cutting efficiency 2 - 4 times in common knife applications. I beg to differ. :)
 
Going from a coarse DMT to a brown sharpmaker would not be a problem but any coarser and you would be spending too much time removing scratches instead of sharpening. I know they are expensive but until you have them all you never fully understand why having the proper range of stones is so important. For a low cost alternative look at norton double sided SiC stones.
 
winbag338 said:
Never used the sharpmaker diamond rods, and have read some rather mixed reviews on them. You can always see what wet dry will work for you, because The truth is re-profiling is not needed as much as you might think.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you mean that re-profiling is not needed as OFTEN as one might think? That was the sense I got when I read your post, and Vivi's reply suggests that he/she got a different meaning from your words.
 
knifenut1013 said:
Going from a coarse DMT to a brown sharpmaker would not be a problem but any coarser and you would be spending too much time removing scratches instead of sharpening. I know they are expensive but until you have them all you never fully understand why having the proper range of stones is so important. For a low cost alternative look at norton double sided SiC stones.
Click to expand...

I don't want this to get more convaluted than it already is, so I'll step away with the knowledge that DMT Coarse to brown sharpmaker is acceptable. I was hoping to get from DMT Extra Coarse to brown, and Vivi gives that the okay as well... so great. However, like the title and one of the original points of my post suggests, that chart says diamond sharpmaker rods are more coarse than DMT Extra Coarse, and many people go from sharpmaker diamond to brown. But this is what I have trouble believing, that the sharpmaker diamond rods are more coarse than DMT Extra Coarse. Just doesn't seem right because there's no way anyone should be going from coarser than DMT Extra Coarse to almost as fine as DMT Extra Fine, which is what sharpmaker browns are. I'm getting a headache.

Oooops! Just realized I forgot to link to this chart I'm rambling on about. Here it is. Sorry.:o
gritsofstonesandrods.jpg
 

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I don't have the diamond sharpmaker rods but at one point had everything else you speak of. Most reference I see leades me to believe the diamond SM rods are in the 300+ grit range and this would put them right along side the coarse DMT, the XC DMT is 220 grit or 60 microns trying to jump from a extremely fast cutting 220 diamond to a slow cutting almost polishing 15 micron brown spyderco ceramic wouldn't not be the Best idea unless your applying a microbevel with the ceramic and not worring about the finish of the complete bevel. My guess is that you want the whole bevel to look just as sharp as the edge though?

For reasons of cost I would still suggest the norton SiC stone, the fine side is like a DMT coarse and would make a smooth transition to the ceramics.
 
I'm pretty sure I saw a post by Sal once saying that the diamond rods were 400grit (can't find it at the moment). From my own experience they do appear to be closer to the DMT Coarse than the XC.

If you don't want to get the XXC, you could follow Blues suggestion and progress from DMT XC to Sharpmaker Diamond (small step), and then the brown and white rods. If you think you can manage with just a 6" stone, maybe consider a double-sided XC/F DMT diasharp? The DMT Fine would put you a bit closer to the brown stones with respect to grit.

Edit: Ah, here it is Sharpmaker Diamond grit
 
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photonjunkie said:
I'm pretty sure I saw a post by Sal once saying that the diamond rods were 400grit (can't find it at the moment). From my own experience they do appear to be closer to the DMT Coarse than the XC.

If you don't want to get the XXC, you could follow Blues suggestion and progress from DMT XC to Sharpmaker Diamond (small step), and then the brown and white rods. If you think you can manage with just a 6" stone, maybe consider a double-sided XC/F DMT diasharp? The DMT Fine would put you a bit closer to the brown stones with respect to grit.

Edit: Ah, here it is Sharpmaker Diamond grit
Click to expand...

IIRC 400 mesh is different from 400 grit
 
KarlMaldensNose said:
I think XXC is only available in the larger, more expensive size stone.
Click to expand...

If it's any help,Dmt actually makes a 4" Extra Extra Coarse Diamond Whetstone in 120 mesh that fits their aligner.I found it at their online store in the Pocket Sharpeners section under Ski & Snowboard Edge Care.I Don't know why but it's not listed as an aligner accessory.

http://theconsumerlink.com/DIAMONDMACHININGTECHNOLOGY/detail/TCL+WS4XX/116

For me,I find that the DMT XC is not coarse enough for repairing chipped edges, at a timely manner.But with my Gatco XC at 80 grit,I have found chips are sharpened out with only a few passes,the only negative thing about this hone is it wears extremely fast. After only a few passes it is evident that the stone's surface is beginning to cup.

Just last month,I persuaded Jeff of Cutlery Shoppe to carry them.Since I read that members were having trouble obtaining these from sources.
 
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