Sharpmaker quesitons - newbie

B

burns

Joined
Jul 31, 2012
Messages
64
Hi folks,

First post here, been lurkin' awhile.

I recently bought my second and third Spydies - a Delica 4 and Endura 4, both blue FRN/FFG. I also have a Native. I've had a Sharpmaker for a couple of weeks and have been using it to bring all my knives up to snuff. As per the video instructions, I've been sharpening at 40 degrees. I've sharpened the Delica twice so far, the Endura twice, with a couple of touch ups on the fine / ultra fine rods.

I've been reading some posts lately that indicate that 40 degrees on a quality steel such as S30V or VG10 is a waste. In other words, that I'm not getting all I can get in terms of sharpness with these high performance steels. I can shave arm hairs decently, but perhaps there is still room for improvement.

Should I be considering the 30 degree option? If so, do I need to buy the rougher (diamond?) rods to go from 40 down to 30 degrees? I only have the medium (gray/brown), fine, and ultra-fine.

Also, regarding stroping, do you need to use compound or is it just optional? Where can compound be purchased? Is green the default option?

Actually, I've been reading on the subject for awhile and I'm still confused - so I appreciate your insight.

Thanks - Burns.
 
All things equal, 30 degree edge will slice better, not because it's "sharper" but because it's pushing apart the material at less severe angles. There's no need to buy extra gear to go from 40 to 30 degrees. It just requires more time and elbow grease. :) First time reprofiling from 40 to 30 will be a long process though.

Stropping can be done with or without compound, assuming you're using a leather strop. But compounds shorten the time required. Green is a good choice for an extremely polished edge. I use a slightly coarser white compound since I prefer a little more bite to my edges.

Welcome to the forums. :)

Added: I forgot to mention that you can simulate diamond rods by wrapping sandpaper around the ceramic rods and reprofiling. It's a cheap and much faster way of grinding off metal. I think I used 300 or 400 grit, or at least something in that ballpark.
 
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Reprofiling vg10 or s30v is tough on a sharpmaker. I reprofile but the diamond stones will take a very long time. I use congress stones to reprofile and work my way up to the diamond then brown then white then ultras.

Unless you want to spend lots 'o' time trying to reprofile... id stick to the kinda close to 30 degree bevel with kinda close to 40 degree secondary bevel the knife came with and sharpen on the 40 degree side of the sharpmaker. the factory edge will cut well enough for most folks. I prefer this setup myself regardless of steel. It works well and the secondary or micro bevel is very durable.

In the end the sharpmaker, while my favorite sharpening gadget is not good at reprofiling with the factory stones. Diamond bench stones or edge pro type setups are far superior, imho. Ymmv though.
 
Basically I will echo what has been said. Except. You can reprofile with ease with a set of ruby stones from congress tools.

Strops are great for refining your edge. I started on the knivesplus strop block which is a great $20 dollars spent. Recently I upgraded to a kangaroo leather strop with .25 micron diamond spray. Leaves a fantastically bitey edge.

With lower edge angles though you increase ease of cutting, you do sacrifice edge robustness. A 40* edge will get plenty sharp ;). And with practice you can get hair whittling edges off the sharpmaker. A strop increases the ease, again, with practice.
 
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Everything said so far is true, but I just wanted to clear something up. Edge angle does not determine how sharp your knife is. You can whittle a hair with a 20 degree angle just as easily as you can with as much as a 60 degree angle. Lowering your edge angle just lowers drag and makes it easier to cut when the whole edge of the knife is burried in the material. As far as shaving, cutting paper, and whittling hair goes, it all depends on how refined you can get your edge.

If a 40deg inclusive edge doesnt seem sharp, you're doing something wrong. In my opinion, 30-40deg. is the perfect range for EDC knives. It is EXTREMELY time consuming to reprofile on a Sharpmaker and I dont recommend it at all and I've heard the diamond rods are low quality and wear pretty quick. hope this helps, good luck!
 
burns,
Welcome to the Forum.
I would strongly recommend to get something much coarse than medium rod for repair/reprofiling. Once, shortly after I bought sharpmaker in 2005 I reprofiled my Native. It took several days. Corners of medium are getting loaded fairly fast 50-70 strokes, so after about 200 strokes you need to wash rods and wait until they get dry.
Another problem is that many people want to remove steel faster and applying a lot of force (no more than 2-3 pounds recommended). Considering that the blade at the edge is very thin and area of contact with corners is very small that creates pressure significant to bend the edge. Now, alternating strokes, they are bending edge back and force and fatigue the edge even before starting to use the knife. So be careful with force.
jbmonkey said:
I use congress stones to reprofile and work my way up to the diamond then brown then white then ultras.
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Steel130 said:
You can reprofile with ease with a set of ruby stones from congress tools.
Click to expand...
It is nice to see more and more sharpmaker people are using congress stones. I started with triangle ruby and flex about five-six years ago. Tried several flavors. Currently using moldmaster in 120, 240 and 400 grits 1/4x1x6 clamped to the flats of the rods. And still thinking about Edgepro every time I need to reprofile a blade.
 
bh49 said:
It is nice to see more and more sharpmaker people are using congress stones. I started with triangle ruby and flex about five-six years ago. Tried several flavors. Currently using moldmaster in 120, 240 and 400 grits 1/4x1x6 clamped to the flats of the rods. And still thinking about Edgepro every time I need to reprofile a blade.
Click to expand...

I've got a knife in D2 steel that needs to be reprofiled - on one side of the blade, the grind is +20 degrees. Do any of the triangle stones from congress fit the Sharpmaker? If not, how do you clamp the rectangular rods to the sharpmaker?

Also, it sounds like a 120 grit ruby or moldmaster is the way to go on the original cutting, then maybe finish with 240 and 400 grit before putting a 40 degree bevel on with the sharpmaker? And no water/oil on the stones?

Sorry about all the questions; the sharpmaker has treated me really well thus far and if I can I would really prefer to get a few extra stones for it rather than upgrading to an edge pro.
 
Honestly, the sharpmaker is great for touch ups but reprofiling will take so much time you will get sick of it. Even with the diamond rods.

I would go for an edge pro or Wicked edge if you really want to start reprofiling.

With my wicked edge, I can do a job in 30 minutes or less that would take days on my sharpmaker. I still use the SM for doing quick touch ups though. It's great and simple for its intended purpose.

Just my opinion.
 
Skywalker31 said:
Do any of the triangle stones from congress fit the Sharpmaker? If not, how do you clamp the rectangular rods to the sharpmaker?
Also, it sounds like a 120 grit ruby or moldmaster is the way to go on the original cutting, then maybe finish with 240 and 400 grit before putting a 40 degree bevel on with the sharpmaker? And no water/oil on the stones?
Click to expand...
1/2" triangular stones may be will fit the base or may not. Sharpmaker rods also 1/2", but made with tighter tolerances. Fortunately for me Congress tool is a local company for me. So I just visited them with base and pick-up stones, which fit. Still some stones are bigger than others, even more: one end can be bigger than another, so two stones will sit at slightly different angle and the edge on one side can be bigger than on another. This was primary reason, why I switched to flat 1/8x1x6" stones couple years ago. I clamp them to flat of medium stones with medium binder paper clip. If you do not have binder paper clips, you can use rubber band or wire ties, anything, which would hold stones on the rods. I am using congress stones dry. I used them wet, but I am not very patient, and it takes much longer. You can try both, just do not use oil or you will have to boil stones, if you decide later to switch to water.
Do not worry about questions. All of us were asking at some time. I still do. One more thing. If you do not have, you will need to get visual aid, at least 10x eye louple, even if you have 20/20 to see your edge. Do not forget magic marker trick.
Good luck.
 
Ok, good to know on the inconsistencies. Still, at six bucks a rod, I guess I can't really complain too much.

I've been using the sharpie trick; I know that the RH bevel is just about perfect at 15 degrees but the LH side is past 20 - I'm still taking material off the shoulder at the 40 degree setting.

And I've never really worried about what I couldn't see before, but I guess if I'm going to go to the trouble of doing this I might as well do it right.

Again, thanks for all the help.
 
Skywalker31 said:
Ok, good to know on the inconsistencies. Still, at six bucks a rod, I guess I can't really complain too much.
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Used to be $3. Not expensive, still you need a pair for each grit, so six pieces at least. I went to this company during these years at least three times, spending $30-40 each time, trying various flavors. I didn't plan, this just happened. Ruby work fast, but wears fast as well. They are great with VG10, S30V, but if you go to something more wear resistant, I would prefer moldmaster. They are silicon carbides.
 
dsmegst said:
All things equal, 30 degree edge will slice better, not because it's "sharper" but because it's pushing apart the material at less severe angles. There's no need to buy extra gear to go from 40 to 30 degrees. It just requires more time and elbow grease. :) First time reprofiling from 40 to 30 will be a long process though.

Stropping can be done with or without compound, assuming you're using a leather strop. But compounds shorten the time required. Green is a good choice for an extremely polished edge. I use a slightly coarser white compound since I prefer a little more bite to my edges.

Welcome to the forums. :)

Added: I forgot to mention that you can simulate diamond rods by wrapping sandpaper around the ceramic rods and reprofiling. It's a cheap and much faster way of grinding off metal. I think I used 300 or 400 grit, or at least something in that ballpark.
Click to expand...

I've been studying a bit and reading the responses, plus watching some youtube vids. If I stick with 40 degrees, finish with the ultra-fine rods, and then the strop I just ordered from stropman.com, I'm thinking perhaps I don't NEED to go to 30 degrees. Will the knife feel sharper at 30? Will it likely slice paper and cardboard more easily, whittle hair, etc? Do I have much to gain?
 
One more thing - Do Delicas and Enduras ship with edges around 30 degrees? I've only sharpened them a couple of times. That being the case, shouldn't it be easy to get them back to 30?
 
burns said:
I've been studying a bit and reading the responses, plus watching some youtube vids. If I stick with 40 degrees, finish with the ultra-fine rods, and then the strop I just ordered from stropman.com, I'm thinking perhaps I don't NEED to go to 30 degrees. Will the knife feel sharper at 30? Will it likely slice paper and cardboard more easily, whittle hair, etc? Do I have much to gain?
Click to expand...

You probably won't notice the difference between 30° and 40° in most of your cutting, and likely won't notice it at all on any sort if soft material. A 40° edge will FEEL just as sharp as a 30° one to your fingers. As mentioned before, bevel angle has nothing to do with sharpness, only with performance in passing through thick or hard materials. You can whittle hair or slice paper with a 60° edge as long as the edge has been properly apexed and refined.
 
burns said:
One more thing - Do Delicas and Enduras ship with edges around 30 degrees? I've only sharpened them a couple of times. That being the case, shouldn't it be easy to get them back to 30?
Click to expand...

Spyderco shoots for 30° inclusive for their factory edges, but since each knife is hand sharpened by a real person on a belt sander rather than by a machine, each knife will vary. But yes, most spydercos are around 30° from the factory.
 
mkjellgren said:
You probably won't notice the difference between 30° and 40° in most of your cutting, and likely won't notice it at all on any sort if soft material.
Click to expand...
I am not so sure about it. I didn't sharpen my knives at 40 degrees yet, all of them @30, but after I reprofiled my Persian to 24 I felt a big difference. I didn't noticed much difference on edge retention, but I do not use my knives really hard: letters, cardboard, occasionally some branches or vines.
 
The most important thing is to develop a consistent stroke. You will see that many knifes do not fall into the 30 or 40 degree exactly. After a while you will develop a feel for when you hitting the edge just right. Fine choices for your first knifes as well.
 
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