Sharpner/Grinder - Belt - Wetstone ?

B

belfagor

Joined
Jan 9, 2005
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For small knives I usually use DMT stones but what do you guys use to sharp big knives, machetes, kukris and so on? I was wondering if a wetstone grinder would do a good job since is not suppose to overheat the blade. Any suggestion for a grinder?

Thank you.
 
A mill bastard file works pretty well. I use a big belt grinder and then stones.
 
Thanks Bill,
I sometimes used a mill bastard file but for tools only. What I'm really wondering about is if you can actually use electric wetstone / belt grinders for nice big knives, kukris and machete with 5160, 1095, 420C blade materials without ruining them and sharpening them properly. Can you get to the point to see the burr ?
I believe that westone grinders are usually running between 100-200 RPM , is this too fast to sharp fine blades?
 
If you really know what you are doing, a belt grinder works fine. If you aren't adept in the belt grinder's use, it's very easy to overheat the blade.
Yes, you can get a burr. I always use stones to finish fine cutlery, but for machetes and axes it's not necessary.
The whetstone grinders are water cooled, so it is much harder to overheat with them. They do leave a coarse edge, though.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
The whetstone grinders are water cooled, so it is much harder to overheat with them. They do leave a coarse edge, though.
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This is true if you dress the wheel fast. If you dress the wheel slow then place a diamond hone or fine stone hone on the wheel's surface for a few seconds you can get a very fine edge grind. When I grind the edge on a knife then give the edge 20-30 seconds on a paper wheel or 1"x30" leather belt the grind lines disappear. Machines like the Tormek and Jet have come a long way...
 
Thank you guys, I'll give it a try. That Tormek grinder it really looks nice with such a great honing guide but it's too expensive for my budget. I may will go with Jet or another low-cost one.
 
belfagor said:
Thank you guys, I'll give it a try. That Tormek grinder it really looks nice with such a great honing guide but it's too expensive for my budget. I may will go with Jet or another low-cost one.
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I've been using a Tormek for sharpening my folders.


I just delivered one of my folders last week to a customer at a commercial de-burring outfit.

A couple days ago, I heard that the guy that bought the knife, along with the owner of the company, noticed the extreme evenness of the secondary bevel (the one that I put on with the Tormek). They asked me how I did it and told me they put it under the microscope and were measuring it and so forth. (I felt pretty good about that.)

It takes a little practice (very little) and maybe a little self-explanitory mod-ing of the fixture to get some of the action you need now and then, but it's a good machine. :thumbup:
 
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There are very fine belts available for belt sanders, as fine as benchstones if you want.

Thanks Cliff, any specific suggestion/preference I should look into?
 
Jerry Hossom uses belt sanders for sharpening his knives and others and is generally well recieved on the sharpness. I would suggest dropping him an email about specific belt selection. I just use mine for shaping, I hand sharpen all my blades on stones. I feel belt sanders just remove too much material for sharpening purposes.

-Cliff
 
Thanks Cliff, that's why I started this thread and seems that you answered my question more precisely. :)

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 I feel belt sanders just remove too much material for sharpening purposes.

That's what I was afraid of. In conclusion seems that grinders are good for shaping ad not for sharpening properly a fine blade.


Thank you
 
That is how I look at it, in cutting comparisons I will blunt knives down to 5% or so of optimal sharpness, yet even then they take as little as a few passes on a rod to restore the edge. Just one pass on a belt sander is more than a hundred times that amount of honing. It produces just too much edge wear, especially if you like coarse edges.

I do the initial shaping on a 1" belt sander, if there is major damage I will again use it to regrind the edges. But for knives that I use, they would never be so sharpened. Taking a custom knife with really high performance steel to such a system I feel is really wasteful, again just simple math on the speed the belt moves.

The Tormek may be different as it move much slower, but even then I would bet that one pass on it would remove more than enough metal to sharpen a knife which was just blunt and not damaged.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
The Tormek may be different as it move much slower, but even then I would bet that one pass on it would remove more than enough metal to sharpen a knife which was just blunt and not damaged.

-Cliff
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It can, but as you know, speed is influenced greatly by pressure, and that's really evident using this machine. With a very light touch you can remove as little as you want. However, if you're only removing that little, the skilled hand on a stone is probably faster since it takes a bit to set up a blade in a jig and get the angles right. (I don't freehand on the thing.)
 
Cliff Stamp said:
That is how I look at it, in cutting comparisons I will blunt knives down to 5% or so of optimal sharpness, yet even then they take as little as a few passes on a rod to restore the edge. Just one pass on a belt sander is more than a hundred times that amount of honing. It produces just too much edge wear, especially if you like coarse edges.

-Cliff
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Cliff, what are your thoughts on using leather belts for touchups? I have 3, charged with Hand American's 6, 1.8, and 0.5 micron pastes. Normally, the 0.5 is all I need.
 
With stropping I am much the same, I just finished a set of chisels. I used a belt sander to remove all the edge damage as they all had nail nicks. I finished them on a set of Spyderco benchstones, medium, then fine then on 0.5 micron loaded leather. With the leather it was just 3-4 passes per side. Again a mechanical buffer would be overkill. However if I was sharpening knives in huge batches, then yes, I would use a belt sander and either micron belts or buffers.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
With stropping I am much the same, I just finished a set of chisels. ... However if I was sharpening knives in huge batches, then yes, I would use a belt sander and either micron belts or buffers.

-Cliff
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By "micron belts", were you referring to leather belts for the sander, or something different?

I keep some worn-out 9 micron 3M mylar belts around for minor edge damage, but even they seem overly-aggressive for simple maintenance.
 
You can get very fine finishing belts, I do not use them, I know Hossom does, I would suggest emailing him if you are interested as he uses the belt sander as a primary sharpening device and perfers high polishes.

-Cliff
 
No problem Ray, Tom Mayo is another maker who uses power sharpening methods and is known for high sharpness so you might want to email him as well.

-Cliff
 
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