sharpness for SD?

J

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Aug 23, 2003
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My EDC knife choices more or less rotates along 3 knives: an Endura 4 wave, 5.11 journeyman karambit and sometimes a BM Instigator, which is a chisel grind.

After experimenting with cardboard stropping, I'm starting to consider if a polished edge is right for the intended use of my EDC, one of which is SD. For slashing in SD, I will probably be hitting either flesh or a t-shirt. Hardly anyone wears a leather jacket where I live. :)
 
stabbing is better for SD, and a highly sharpened edge is always better, that's my opinion.
 
I think any knife should be as sharp as you can get it without compromising edge retention and durability. I think this is the reason some people carry a larger knife and then a small SAK for everyday cutting tasks like opening mail.
 
Skimo said:
stabbing is better for SD, and a highly sharpened edge is always better, that's my opinion.
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Stabbing is not better for SD unless your blade is 6+ inches, A slash cut to a vital area can cause much more damage.


To the OP question, Depends on your level of stropped sharpness and if you know how to use a blade with that type of edge. Unless your edge will easily whittle hair a polished edge might not work. I tested different types of edges on a old sweat shirt, edges that were finished with a DMT X-fine did better than most polish edges but some steels that take a good polished edge made a much deeper cut with less drag.

If your polished edge won't do this then it most likely won't work well for SD.
Picture507.jpg
 
I prefer a more "toothy" edge for SD purposes. A stropped edge will cut, but since it's a clean cut, the cut will heal fast. On the other hand, a more toothy edge will produce cuts that are more difficult to heal. Why ? It's like comparing being cut with a box cutter to being cut with a saw. A toothy edge will tear the target's flesh, not just cleanly cut it.
 
I just picture a robber going into the hospital, getting seen by a doctor, and having the doctor discuss how clean the cuts are. The comments would be hilarious.

"Must've been a knife knut."
"It's like a scalpel. Shoot, it actually looks cleaner than a scalpel. Where can I get in touch with this guy?"
"Must be a Kershaw fan."

As for SD, I would expect a nice, toothy edge to do well, as long as it's not serrated. Then again, some people swear by the Spyderco Civilian, so I can't say.
 
beluga said:
I prefer a more "toothy" edge for SD purposes. A stropped edge will cut, but since it's a clean cut, the cut will heal fast. On the other hand, a more toothy edge will produce cuts that are more difficult to heal. Why ? It's like comparing being cut with a box cutter to being cut with a saw. A toothy edge will tear the target's flesh, not just cleanly cut it.
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But people don't heal within seconds, let alone minutes like Wolverine. The goal is to remove the threat, and either a clean cut or a rip-cut will both do the job, no? What happens when the SOB is in the hospital, I don't care too much. Unless you're afraid of him coming after you in the future or something like that...
 
knifenut1013 said:
If your polished edge won't do this then it most likely won't work well for SD.
Picture507.jpg
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Since facts would hamper this discussion, I would bet most knives used in fatal encounters wouldn't do that, and it wouldn't matter. Most people are stabbed/cut with kitchen knives also more people are shot with cheap guns than expensive customized guns....
 
Superdave1, of course most knives used in fatal encounters won't do that. That is not proof that it doesn't matter. Most blades used in fatal encounters aren't swords either, but wouldn't you prefer one to a small folder or kitchen knife? It's important not to lose track of the fact that even fairly dull knives can 'work', but sharper knives may (or may not) work *significantly* better.

In my tests, a knife that was shaving sharp but not "hair whittling" sharp took significantly more force to make deep slashes in a pork shoulder than my longer blade that was hair whittling sharp (but then again, the blade geometries were different too).

Knifenut, approximately how big is the effect you're talking about? How sharp can you get the blades with the DMT X-fine, and what grit is it?

If your polished edge won't do this then it most likely won't work well for SD.
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I gotta disagree with you there. My knife won't do that because it cuts the hair clean in half. If your edge actually whittles hair then your angle is too obtuse:p
 
The DMT X-fine is a 1200 mesh, 9 micron stone that will produce a edge that is clean shaving and sometimes hair popping sharp at the right angle.

The "Effect" is that you must cut with a toothy edge and you can slice with a correctly polished edge.
 
knifenut1013 said:
The DMT X-fine is a 1200 mesh, 9 micron stone that will produce a edge that is clean shaving and sometimes hair popping sharp at the right angle.
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Well it had better be hair-popping, because I can consistently get a clean-shaving edge with my Fine (600 mesh, 25 micron, I believe) DMT stone.
 
i carry either a custom emerson CQC13 or a spyderco Ti ATR only for SD and a SE spyderco delica for utility and keep the '13 & the ATR as sharp as i can get them.
 
THG said:
Well it had better be hair-popping, because I can consistently get a clean-shaving edge with my Fine (600 mesh, 25 micron, I believe) DMT stone.
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True, the DMT fine will yield a suprising level of sharpness for its given grit. The X-fine will make it a little sharper but does more for smoothing out the edge (less toothy).
 
jimmyh said:
Superdave1, of course most knives used in fatal encounters won't do that. That is not proof that it doesn't matter. Most blades used in fatal encounters aren't swords either, but wouldn't you prefer one to a small folder or kitchen knife? It's important not to lose track of the fact that even fairly dull knives can 'work', but sharper knives may (or may not) work *significantly* better.

In my tests, a knife that was shaving sharp but not "hair whittling" sharp took significantly more force to make deep slashes in a pork shoulder than my longer blade that was hair whittling sharp (but then again, the blade geometries were different too).

Knifenut, approximately how big is the effect you're talking about? How sharp can you get the blades with the DMT X-fine, and what grit is it?



I gotta disagree with you there. My knife won't do that because it cuts the hair clean in half. If your edge actually whittles hair then your angle is too obtuse:p
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I agree with you on this discussion. I normally carry two or three knives and one is purely for SD. I do not use it for day to day tasks so it stays very sharp. Personally I don't care for DMT sharpeners for this type of sharp edge and I use Spyderco benchstones in fine and ultrafine.
 
i use paper wheels to sharpen the knives i make which can cut through kevlar fairly easy when i'm done plus push cut newspaper like it was nothing.
 
6+ inches, no, I'm sorry but that's ludicrous.

it takes about 3 inches, slashing cuts are for knife fighters who want to disable.

Stabbing it almost like shooting, instead of a superficial 1/4 or 1/2 inch cut from a slash a 3 inch stab on the other hand becomes an internal bleeder.

Also depending on where you live, if you only maim or debilitate an attacker you are looking at removing yourself from society.

Stabbing is more deadly than slashing unless you happen to slash across some arteries.

EDIT: Also I think this ought to be moved to tac/prac
 
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One of the knives I carry is a Spyderco Military. Soon after receiving it I put a nice, convex edge on the blade. Immediately after I washed it to get all the grit out, after which it then slipped out of my right hand and landed on the fleshy part of my left. Cut 1/8" deep effortlessly. I was pretty surprised at how easily it happened and stopped to admire the cleanness of the cut, but stopped when I started bleeding like a stuck pig. That experience taught me that a polished edge will have no problems going through flesh, especially if that edge is wielded by a determined individual.
 
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