Shaving Sharp w/Sharpmaker

J

JH225

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 7, 1999
Messages
1,145
I have used a few different types of sharpeners over the years, and have now started to use the 204 Sharpmaker.

While I find it very easy to use, and I can put a very sharp edge on any knife with it (although I would like to see a coarse stone also), I can't seem to get that shaving/hair-popping sharp edge on them.

I have followed all the directions and have also tried my own ways but to no avail, very sharp yes, shaving sharp no.

Am I missing something here? What could I possibly be doing to not get this edge?.

Any ideas would be welcomed.

BTW, all knives that I use are high quality knives(Spyderco,Benchmade,Microtech,etc.), so it is not an issue of a poor quality steel.
 
Jailhack - Put your thumb on top of the blade and the sharpener on a table below your waist. Locate your head about 18" behind the tool.

Pay special attention to keeping the blade vertical (90 degrees from the table). This is the key. Permitting the blade to "wobble" or move from vertical decreaes the edge you will get. "Stiff wrist" is a good way to begin the learning curve. You should be able to get any knife to shave hair.
sal
 
Sal,

That is the problem, I DO have correct form and sharpen just like you stated (blade vertical,thumb on top ,me standing up with the tool at waist level, drawing the knife back and somewhat down in a slicng motion with my wrist locked).

Still can't get that edge though.
 
Jailhack, use very light pressure on the finishing strokes and alternate strokes every time. If the edge grind is not thin enough of an angle, maybe you are not sharpening the edge, but are sharpening the angle above the edge, I had this problem on a Kershaw Random Task. On a Spyderco Military, the edge is ground at a thin enough angle you won't have this problem. When I use this method, the hair jumps off. Be sure and hold the knife at about a 45 degree angle to your skin for easiest shaving. Too low of an angle doesn't work good for me. YMMV.
 
After I use my Sharpmaker (the older one), I also use a steel to "align" the edge. This seems to add sharpness (perhaps just my perception of sharpness) to my blades. My blades do end up able to shave quite well. Also, I use the steel to touch up my blades - don't really need to sharpen them that often.
 
If you don't get a burr, then you have not reached the edge of the blade.
Read the Sharpening f.a.q. elsewhere on this site, but just keep in mind this: before getting to the last stage when you use the white stones and very light pressure, you should reach a point where you will draw the edge backwards on your fingernail (the other side, not the one that you have been grinding) and it should "catch". You should position the knife as if you wanted to slice a little off your fingernail (as if you were peeling an apple) BUT THEN DRAWING THE KNIFE BACKWARDS, so if there is a burr on the edge it will "catch".
I'm not sure it is clear as I write it, but that's the key. From that point, you should alternate sides using lighter pressure until you can no longer feel this burr. Then you will have a hair shaving edge!

(take note: this has worked for me for many many knives, but there is at least one that will never get really that sharp- I don't know why yet, I have sent Joe an e-mail, maybe he knows)

Costas
 
Jailhack, take a marker and use it on the edge of the blade. This will allow you to see if you are grinding to the edge or just on the shoulders.

-Cliff
 
One problem with V sharpeners is that if you do both the profiling (coarse) sharpening and the final bevel using the same angle the final stage is difficult. For shaving sharpness I like to finish with a 15-degree angle on both edges (30 degrees total). If that is your finest V angle it is easier to get the shaving edge if you do your profiling at an even smaller angle. I use medium and super-fine diamond plates at about 13 degrees for preliminary edge thinning. Then I finish with fine ceramic rods at 15 degrees (well actually 14).

I first use down strokes against the rods using medium then light strokes. Then I use upstrokes to strop the edge. With a good steel I can shave at this point. Then I strop on leather with green buffing compound. Then I go back to the ceramic lightly. Then I strop again. If I'm working with really good steel I now get a nice smooth shave.

[This message has been edited by Jeff Clark (edited 14 July 1999).]
 
Costas,

Thanks. The drawing the knife backwards to detect the burr was a very good description.
 
Costas, great description. Jailhack, I don't have a good feeling for what kinds of techniques you've tried. I could be wrong, but I don't recall that Spyderco promoted a burr-based technique in their literature. I strictly use a burr technique, and am very pleased with the results on my Sharpmaker.

One side only til you get a full-length burr, flip over and repeat. From there start switching sides between each stroke, and use a lighter touch as you go to finer stones. I like to finish up with one VERY light stroke on each side that is a couple degrees bigger than what I was sharpening at -- this will finish off any residual burr that was left.

Joe

PS Just FYI, while I'm home, it's a little more difficult for me to reach my email than to get to the forums. So it might be a couple days between emails, but I'm still responding to all of 'em...

[This message has been edited by Joe Talmadge (edited 14 July 1999).]
 
Here's a trick for adjusting the honing angle on a V-style ceramic sharpener.

Assume I have a 15 degree (x2) sharpener and I want to profile to 14 degrees. I need to subtract 1 degree from my angle. By putting a small spacer under one end of my sharpener I reduce the angle of one of my rods and increase the angle of the other rod by the same amount. If the base of my sharpener is about 6 inches long a 0.1" spacer will change my angles by about 1 degree. I put the spacer (like a thick popsicle stick) under the right-hand end of the sharpener and work just on the right-hand side of my blade (at 14 degrees). Then I put the stick under the left-hand side of my sharpener and profile the left-hand side of my blade. Do this with medium grit then with fine grit.

Now remove the shim and finish your edge alternating left and right sides at 15 degrees each.
 
I used to do something similar to what Jeff does. I'd pull apart a wire clothes hanger, then put the long rod under the sharpmaker right where the apex of the V would be. By rocking the base back and forth, I'd be able to go side-to-side with each stroke, at a greater (or lesser) angle than the standard.

With the 204, I'm just going 15/20 now.

Joe
 
Thanks for all the help guy's.

I didn't realize that you must first get the burr with the coarse(well really medium) stones, before even going to the fine stones. This might be where my problem is.

I also think that the process of "drawing the blade" is a great idea. And I understood it just fine. Thanks.

It is too late to try tonight, but I will attempt to solve this problem tommorrow.

P.S.- Joe, you stated that with the 204 you go 15/20. Does this mean that you first use the 30 degree angle and then go to the 40 degree angle? And if this is so, do you get your burr with the 30 (using the medium stones) and then switch to the 40 for the fine stones (to get the razor edge)?

[This message has been edited by Jailhack (edited 14 July 1999).]
 
Jail --

You could go all the way to a burr with the 15-degree angle, then just do the final double-grind I described with the 20-degree. I usually don't do that, though, mostly because I don't have the patience to re-grind all my knives to a strict 15 degrees and then continue all the way to a burr. Sometimes getting the final burr on such a low angle takes a while, that first time.

What I do is use the 15-degree sticks for thinning bevels to get good edge thinness, then do my regular sharpening on the 20 degree sticks. So, I take the 15-degree bevel to about (say) 1/32" or maybe a bit closer to the very edge. This thins the edge nicely so that the 20-degree sharpening goes really quickly. Then I do as I described -- one side only on the 20-degree stick, at full-length burr switch sides and repeat, then start switching sides between strokes, etc.

That leaves a nice thin edge, though the very tip is at 20 degrees and has a little more durability than a full 15-degree edge. This edge is nice, performs really really well.

Joe


This leaves a really great-performing edge, that can be
 
I have never been able to get a sharp edge on a knife until I found out about the Spyderco sharpmaker. I can get a very sharp edge with the Spyderco. After using the sharpmaker, I then strop the knife which in turn brings my knives razor shaving sharp. Thanks to www.handamerican.com I finally learned how to strop and what polishing compounds to use on the strop.

[This message has been edited by Big D1 (edited 15 July 1999).]
 
About the Sharpmaker...

I recently purchased the Sharpmaker 204, and noticed that when I placed the ceramic stones on the 40-degree slot, the stones aren't facing square on each other, but rather a bit facing outwards.

What I mean is that when I try to put my knife parallel to the ground, flush against the ceramic stones, the knife itself isn't straight, but rather pointing outwards, so basically my wrist is angled a bit, instead of eyeballing the knife up and down, I have to do it a bit sideways.

Since I haven't seen any other Sharpmaker kits around (I ordered it from an online store), is this normal? I'm having this funny feeling that it's something of a factory defect during the molding process of the Sharpmaker base, but I'm not sure yet. Help?

Dan
 
Dannyc, I got my 204 recently also and noticed that the rods didn't fit well in the slots and had to remove a plug of excess plastic before the rod would insert smoothly in one of the holes.

Check your slots to see if there's any excess plastic around the holes.

Some of the other slots on my 204 were smooth from the start and some were just plain blasted tight... but getting better with each use. This is a minor quality issue, tho I would've returned the 204 for another one if the dealer had been local cuz the tight ones were taking two hands to force the rods in.
 
Longden - It's not that the rods won't go in snugly. It does. The problem is that the slot itself isn't facing each other flat.

Imagine the rods going in flush, then when you look at the V-shape, you'll notice that the flat inner side of the "V" isn't facing each other squarely, but rather a bit outwards. So when you start sharpening, your hand holding the knife would not be straight, but rather a bit pointing outwards, just to make the knife edge flush against the stone. If you do it straight up, part of the blade won't seat itself on the flat side of the stone.

Agh... I sure wish there was a better way to describe this, or even take pictures of it. Unfortunately I don't have a scanner or digital camera at the moment.
frown.gif


But I think you get the idea already.
smile.gif
Think of your two fingers doing a "V", but twist your fingers a bit outwards, that's what my 204 is doing to the rods.

Dan
 
Danny,

I've been wondering about the same thing ever since I bought my Sharpmaker 203 almost 2 years ago. It doesn't really matter to me because I seldom use the flat sides anyway (I prefer the corners because they cut faster, and I can always adjust the pressure anyway). But when I do use the flat sides, I do this trick: seat the edge against the sides, no matter how awkward it seems (in your case, it might be pointing outwards). The real secret is to keep the edge parallel to the ground, and the blade in 90 degree angle to the ground while you slice downward.

Whew..., now I'm the one in trouble explaining this
smile.gif
. But I hope you know what I'm talking about.

------------------
Reynaert
 
I noticed on the old Sharpmaker that I have to really try to feel when the blade sits fully against the flat edge as well as try to keep the edge parallel to the ground and the blade at a 90 degree angle to the ground. It's really easy to let the edge get part way off the flat side.

I hadn't even noticed whether the flat sides face each other squarely. I'll have to check that. I really haven't noticed any particular discomfort though - just that I have to be sensitive about how the edge sits against the flat.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top