Shaving sharp

B

blade dude

Joined
Nov 8, 2015
Messages
890
Call me crazy but I just cleaned up my neckline with this blade.
4686f53f20076b2c9b67b2dbd410a947.jpg
call me crazier I sharpened at roughly four hundred grit dollar tree stone then stropped on bare leather. So my question is. What's the reason for 10k grit stones for straight razors? Now that I can effectively get a knife sharp enough I may buy one but my main question is what's the point of anything past 2k grit.


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It's all about the irritation. CAN you shave at lower grits? You surely can! But it isn't pleasant on your face, at all. Straight razor guys don't even like 8k off the stone, many of them. Gotta be as polished as you can get it, including stropping.
 
samuraistuart said:
It's all about the irritation. CAN you shave at lower grits? You surely can! But it isn't pleasant on your face, at all. Straight razor guys don't even like 8k off the stone, many of them. Gotta be as polished as you can get it, including stropping.
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Maybe I'll understand when I get one. Or maybe my face skin is tougher but it really wasn't rough. That does make sense though. Thanks


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blade dude said:
Or maybe my face skin is tougher but it really wasn't rough.
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From my brief entry into the world of shaving, faces seem to vary dramatically in terms of "tough" versus "baby". I'm guessing you're closer to the far end of the tough scale.

On the other hand, traditional blades like the one in your picture tend to be very thin and made of easy to sharpen steel. So your chosen instrument is certainly much closer to a "razor" than something like a Kabar knife or today's typical "tactical folder" which have bad geometry and steel that probably doesn't take nearly as keen an edge at low grits.

I recall being VERY surprised and happy when I sharpened an Old Timer on my Norton Fine India stone and ended up with a mirror type bevel. I was shocked actually, since the Fine India isn't really very fine. Steel composition apparently makes a big difference. The owner of that blade was also pretty happy and impressed when he got it back. :)

Brian.
 
Is that knife an Old Timer (Schrade USA) in 1095? If so, I'd also give some credit to the steel itself, which is known to take great 'shaving sharp' edges quite easily, with simple means. I've had similar reactions to my 8OT's edges, when sharpening them up. Schrade USA might've had the best heat treat of their 1095 as I've ever seen.

I'll also agree about the mention of irritation level. It's one thing to 'test' shaving sharpness occasionally with impressive results. But shave every day with the same blade, for a solid week or two, and then see how it's working out. My face doesn't even like to be shaved two days in a row with my 'made exclusively for shaving' Mach 3 razor and shave cream. I usually skip a day or two between shaves, to minimize skin irritation.


David
 
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It's the smoothness of the shave . Straight razor guys are obsessed with the smoothest shave possible , I'm talking the forum guys . Higher grits make the shave smoother , it's not that cut and dry though everybody's face is different . Some guys swear by a 12k naniwa edge others 8k Norton . Other guys go like 500,000 grit (diamond emulsion )
 
Gonna add Murray carter got ripped by a lot of folks in the straight community for posting a video of a straight going 1k to 6k and stropping with belt .

People went ballistic and Murray offered one of the guys a trip out to his shop and to bring his stones and they could compare edges . Basically it's a big can of worms and the finish on razor debate has been going on for awhile and people have very strong beliefs about what is what .
 
blade dude said:
Call me crazy but I just cleaned up my neckline with this blade.
4686f53f20076b2c9b67b2dbd410a947.jpg
call me crazier I sharpened at roughly four hundred grit dollar tree stone then stropped on bare leather. So my question is. What's the reason for 10k grit stones for straight razors? Now that I can effectively get a knife sharp enough I may buy one but my main question is what's the point of anything past 2k grit.
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Hi,
Try shaving the same spot every day, I think that is what the straight razor shavers do
and why why the high grits start to matter,
your face runs out of dead skin that doesn't feel pain after a while (week?)


Also, congratulations, I've done the same with my dollar tree paring knife and stone, but I don't like close shaves
 
Spartan00 said:
Gonna add Murray carter got ripped by a lot of folks in the straight community for posting a video of a straight going 1k to 6k and stropping with belt .

People went ballistic and Murray offered one of the guys a trip out to his shop and to bring his stones and they could compare edges . Basically it's a big can of worms and the finish on razor debate has been going on for awhile and people have very strong beliefs about what is what .
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I saw that video. The straight razor community can be very superstitious as well, and don't like anyone upsetting what they believe in. Good for Murray, everyone needs a breath of fresh air every now and then.

I struggled when I first started using straights. Then I threw out all the conventional wisdom and just sharpened my way. I compared it to a razor I got from one of the "masters" and it was just as good. Another myth busted, for me at least.
 
They do a good job of basically a hone a razor for dummies type deal .

My problem is they treat it as a gospel and if you question it your wrong .

Comfort is the most important thing in wet shaving and what's comfortable to me may not be comfortable to you so trying to throw that one size fits all crap into it is a bit ridiculous.
 
Yes, the straight razor folks can be very persnickety. Which I disdain. So, I sharpened my straight up to a 2000 Spyderco UF grit ceramic hone. On to 2 levels of stropping and like Sodak it gave a good shave. Those guys whip up some good edges but they obsess over it. Something that's accepted in straight razor shaving and not needed with a decent cutting knife. That level India stone gives a good edge. Does your Schrade Stockman have broke blade? DM
 
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I agree that shaving daily with same knife is the real test. My GB M4, and Endura ZDP can shave, but I have to skip a day. For real daily shave, I need the level of smoothness obtained from my BCMW 52100 & AEBL parings and for folder, Stretch VG10 & E4 SB. It also definitely depends on steel vs sharpening gear (stones and strops), one has to find the right combination.

I'm still working on the right combination to enable these two high carbides steel to shave daily. A test to my skill & learnings from masters here.

I'm also on the rough face spectrum I guess, looking back, I started shaving with my cheap balisongs in 420 steel many years ago. :o
 
I've been shaving with straight razor for five years now, but not everyday until this year.
The thing here is that the scratch pattern should be the most uniform possible, or the pressure is not equally distributed in your face and the skin gets scratched which result in discomfort and irritation.
I have a zwilling henckels 3k/8k stone that I use to refresh the edge every 4-5 months in between those I maintain it with around 7-10 strokes on leather with flexcut gold every 3 to 4 weeks plus the everyday stropping on an old belt 20-40 strokes.
It works pretty well for me now that I have the technique down.
I spend 10-13 minutes beginning to end now, with soaking of the brush while I strop the razor, lather up, shave 2 passes and aftershave lotion.
One thing I didn't try is a razor honed by a honemeister to compare but for me is pretty comfortable.
David you should try(if you didn't yet) because with a mach3 or the like every pass is actually triple so triple irritation too, and you have more than enough skill to shave off your arkansas stone mate.

The rougher edge I tried was a super blue caly3 out of EF DMT and strop with white compound, and It was not comfortable at all but It surely cut all the hair.

regards
Mateo
 
Mateo,

My finishes for SuperBlue is DMT EEF (and a worn one, so it's smoother), Spyderco UF (with oil, light touch), then strop with green (0.5u). It's very smooth shave (or maybe my skin is really thick :D ).
 
Glad I read this thread. I need to pick up a straight razor. I know a classically trained barber who has offered to show me how to sharpen and strop a straight razor. But I had always wondered why the razor folks were like it MUST be sharpened above a certain grit. Then I go to the history books and see all the races in history who didn't have water stones, heck who didn't even have a man made flat stone. But they were clean shaven. Why is it so hard for us?
 
1095? If so, I'd also give some credit to the steel itself, which is known to take great 'shaving sharp' edges quite easily, with simple means
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This ^

I am going to assume, perhaps wrongly, that you are asking for general sharpening and not for just shaving your face.

For general sharpening to produce tough edges to cut tough materials, cleanly, precisely and for long term durability then the finer stones are worth the money and time to use. I am thinking push cutting, woodworking chisels, plane blades, and I use knifes at work a lot this way to push cut trim hard rubber. I am not sawing my way through bushel baskets of rope.

Part of the reason you got such good results . . . I believe anyway . . . is that you got a thin foily wire edge and then made it pretty straight and relatively unragged with the leather. So FOR HAIR you got what you needed.
Great job by the way !

But for tough materials, wood / extra hard wood, hard rubber, tough plastic etc that foily edge would have folded over and got all dinged up.
ALSO
In the harder blade materials A-2, XHP-189 etc. the steel just laughs at a bare strop. It takes a few grits to really make a durable edge.

For instance when I got my Manix 2 CPM-S110V with it's toothy edge I tried it out and was kind of disgusted with how it felt, shaving wise, cutting wise, it just wasn't much. I stropped it on a rough strop with green on it and you could hear the blade laughing halfway down the block. IT JUST MADE ZERO DIFFERENCE. I have had that edge to mirror and toothy and back to mirror and for me an edge at least some where near 4000 to 8000 grit is all I am willing to use at this point.

Besides, look at all the pretty stones you could be spending money on and collecting.
You aren't going to let one little sharpening session ruin your stone collecting hobby are you ?
No of course not. :)

 
razor-edge-knives said:
It doesn't need to be as complicated as everyone makes it, although there is definitely technique and skill involved...

Read this when you get a second. Todd knows what he's doing, and he said he can get a smooth shave from a 325 dmt

https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com/2016/04/14/simple-straight-razor-honing/
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There's a little more to the DMT 325 shave than just using any old DMT 325 though. I've done it, after some back and forth with Todd about it. I have honed and shaved with 3 separate straights now using the 325 with no irritation - including shaving ATG. The main thing you need is a well broken in DMT 325 and a very light touch. There's a bit of an anomaly going on with the dull diamond plate that creates an edge that is far more refined than what would normally be expected from a 325 grit stone/plate - which is also described on Todd's site.

Having shaved with straights for nearly a couple decades now, a 2k stone definitely won't cut it for shave comfort. I could certainly shave with a razor edge finished on a 2k, but I sure wouldn't enjoy it. Now a Spyderco UF ceramic is a different story though - that's much finer than 2k IMO, and gives a suitable edge for shaving IME. A pocket knife shave (done plenty of those also) is a little different than a straight razor shave IMO - for one thing, most of the time shaving with a pocket knife, you'll be using the curved part of the blade and only getting a thin little swath of hair at a time, where with a straight you're taking quite a wide path of hair out with every swipe. Pulling is much less noticeable with the narrow patch than the wide one. In addition, the included angle on a straight is normally about 16°, and pocket knives are usually considerably greater - thereby more easily able to differentiate between hair and skin cutting. The razor can be sharp enough to readily slice right through anything, even skin imperfections - where the thicker angle on the knife will cut hair pretty easily but doesn't slice skin so readily as does the razor.
 
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