Sheath fit question

[Randydb]

Horsewright and other leather experts. I see that you often sew a bit of a loop in your sheaths near the handle that I am pretty sure helps make the knife more secure in the sheath. Tightens the fit.

Does the welt extend under the loop you sew? The sheaths my students made in another thread fit fairly well right now but I worry things might loosen up in a few years. I would appreciate understanding when and how this loop is done...welt/no welt etc.

 

[Horsewright]

Horsewright and other leather experts. I see that you often sew a bit of a loop in your sheaths near the handle that I am pretty sure helps make the knife more secure in the sheath. Tightens the fit.

Does the welt extend under the loop you sew? The sheaths my students made in another thread fit fairly well right now but I worry things might loosen up in a few years. I would appreciate understanding when and how this loop is done...welt/no welt etc.

So this is one of my pancake sheaths.

The inside line of stitching on the bottom does follow the edge of the the welt. My sheaths for the most part are only welted on the edge side. That sharp lump acts as a cam and the knife has to ride up and over that cam to come out. When putting a knife into one of my sheaths you will hear an audible clunk as it sits down. Check this little vid for an example of what I mean and how I want my sheaths to fit:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BtKcsUfjAeM/

This type of welt is commonly called a Loveless welt after Bob. In this link on how to make a pancake sheath there are some pics of what the inside looks like and how the shape of the knife interacts with the shape of the welt:

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/pancake-sheaths-and-how-i-go-about-them-pic-heavy.1262927/

Lucia is wearing one of my Horizontal sheaths and you can see that I use a similar welt system even though the construction of this sheath is completely different.

I do it on a Slot and Loop sheath as well:

So each sheath must be fitted to that knife, there is no one size fits all even between my own knife models. Two Gordos can't share the same sheath the fit will be different. A Gordo sheath:

The only sheaths I don't do this on are slip sheaths for kitchen knives, boot sheaths and bowie sash sheaths.

Hope this helps and I got a way of tightening a loose sheath too.

 

[Randydb]

Hope this helps and I got a way of tightening a loose sheath too.

This post helps a ton. I was talking about sheath contructed like the horizontal carry that Lucia is wearing.

Your post is going to change how I make sheaths!

I'm also interested in your method for tightening loose sheaths. My personal everyday carry is not as tight as it once was....I was going to make another sheath, but if I can tighten this one it would be good. The knife and sheath have been together for 4 or 5 years now.

 

[Hengelo_77]

Heat shrinks leather, but also weakens glue.
You can blow hot air from a paintstripper/hair drier in and over the sheath and it will tighten up, but you have to get a feeling for it.
Take your time, go slowly and keep the hot air moving all over. Don't overdo it.
Theoreticaly an oven should work but I haven't tried an oven. The paintstripper works for me

 

[Randydb]

Heat shrinks leather, but also weakens glue.
You can blow hot air from a paintstripper/hair drier in and over the sheath and it will tighten up, but you have to get a feeling for it.
Take your time, go slowly and keep the hot air moving all over. Don't overdo it.
Theoreticaly an oven should work but I haven't tried an oven. The paintstripper works for me

Do you get it wet and then do the heat shrink?

 

[Hengelo_77]

No dry

 

[Horsewright]

This post helps a ton. I was talking about sheath contructed like the horizontal carry that Lucia is wearing.

Your post is going to change how I make sheaths!

I'm also interested in your method for tightening loose sheaths. My personal everyday carry is not as tight as it once was....I was going to make another sheath, but if I can tighten this one it would be good. The knife and sheath have been together for 4 or 5 years now.

Yeah the Horizontal sheath is my personal favorite too. Have one on right now. Here ya go Randy on tightening up an old sheath. This is such a cool deal and works so well I wish it was my idea. Its not though I just kind of ran with it and made it more refined and permanent.

Years and years ago a friend had one of my knives. I was just starting to understand how to get a decent fit on a sheath to get this kind of retention (look close above his left front pocket):

Didn't always get it though at that time as I was just starting to experiment with that Loveless welt idea. My friend worked at a place where he wore coveralls while at work that the company provided. So he'd hang his pants in his locker and the way everything was configured, his belt knife would hang upside down. After a few months of use the sheath started loosening up and his knife would fall out while hanging in his locker. He was over one day and was telling me about this and how he fixed it. He took a small piece of Dr Scholls moleskin and stuck it to the inside back of the sheath. This really tightened up the sheath and the knife stopped dropping out. When the sticky on the back of the moleskin kind of wore out he'd just replaced it with a new piece.


Hmm I says, hmm. So what I do is superglue a small piece of soft chap leather, (usually a piece of oiltan) to the inside back. I'll precut the piece and fit it but I want it sticking out of the throat of the sheath all the way and I want it to fit from side to side and maybe an 1.5" approx down into the sheath. After I get it cut to size, I'll dry fit it and the knife inside the sheath to make sure the weight of chap leather chosen is right. Ya can get it too tight by using a piece too thick or not tight enough by using too thin a piece. I use Gorilla brand super glue and I'll put a bead all the way around the chap leather piece and fill in the rest in a zig zag pattern. So I don't completely cover the chap leather piece but pretty close. I'll then give the inside of the sheath where the piece is gonna go a squirt with superglue accelerator and then slide in the chap leather piece. This is the really important part, as I slide it in I want the glue to form a "dam" or bead all the way across the top of the sheath at the junction of the two pieces of leather. If I don't get a complete bead I will add more superglue so that there is a complete bead. I'll also use my finger to make sure the chap leather piece is pressed down flat inside the sheath. I'll then give the complete bead a squirt of accelerator to cure it. I'll use my roundknife to squarely cut off the excess chap leather with the edge of the sheath. I'll use an exacto knife to trim what I can't get with the roundknife and to cut a 45 degree bevel on the chap leather once it is flush. I'll then us a 120 grit flap wheel on a dremel tool to sand these two layers into one and make a nice smooth edge. I'll rub the edge with Wyo Quick Slik (the edge rubbing agent I use in my leather work) and you are done, good to go. This really works crazy good and I've never had one come apart. Will certainly give some new life to an old sheath. Works so good wish it was my idea.

 

[Randydb]

I've been on enough horses that got to kicking around that I know it would take an incredibly well fitting horizontal sheath to hold the knife in on a ride that cowboy has going!!!

Your solution is brilliant and simple here. I have some tanned deer hide that will work just right to tighten things up.
Thanks for sharing that solution.

 

[Horsewright]

I've been on enough horses that got to kicking around that I know it would take an incredibly well fitting horizontal sheath to hold the knife in on a ride that cowboy has going!!!

Your solution is brilliant and simple here. I have some tanned deer hide that will work just right to tighten things up.
Thanks for sharing that solution.

Perfect! Good deal.

 

[GBinGA]

That's a great trick and is very interesting to me. I am trying to get better at leather work, and getting the perfect fit on a pouch sheath is beating me up.

Why super glue vs. contact cement? (just curious)

George

 

[Randydb]

That's a great trick and is very interesting to me. I am trying to get better at leather work, and getting the perfect fit on a pouch sheath is beating me up.

Why super glue vs. contact cement? (just curious)

George

I'm not sure but I wonder if there is a chance the contact cement doesn't allow for any adjustment once you make contact. Still get a bit of a chance to move things around with superglue.
Personally I like that I can get superglue in different consistencies. From super thin through to a thick gel.

 

[Horsewright]

That's a great trick and is very interesting to me. I am trying to get better at leather work, and getting the perfect fit on a pouch sheath is beating me up.

Why super glue vs. contact cement? (just curious)

George

The superglue allows that slide in fit/placement forming the dam or bead that I talked about. Contact cement won't. I do a lot of leather work and am a huge believer in contact cement of course (buy it by the gallon in fact) but not for this application. Also I've tried other superglues and have not been as successful. Some of em don't seem to want to stick to certain chap leathers very well and the Gorilla Glue brand sticks to everything.

 

[GBinGA]

Thank you! That makes perfect sense.

I actually tried the trick on a nice neat sheath that I had made just a smidge too big, and got away with it using contact cement. But I can see the advantage that you are describing. I'll get a tube of Gorilla super glue next time I am at a store.

Thanks again for your posts. Your leather work is amazing, and this sort of sharing really helps a rookie!

George

 

[Horsewright]

Thank you! That makes perfect sense.

I actually tried the trick on a nice neat sheath that I had made just a smidge too big, and got away with it using contact cement. But I can see the advantage that you are describing. I'll get a tube of Gorilla super glue next time I am at a store.

Thanks again for your posts. Your leather work is amazing, and this sort of sharing really helps a rookie!

George

Ya bet! Anytime. Ever any questions I'm only a type or a call away.

 

[Randydb]

Used the superglue/leather insert method last night and it worked like a charm. The fit of the sheath is nice and snug again.
Thanks.

 

[Horsewright]

Used the superglue/leather insert method last night and it worked like a charm. The fit of the sheath is nice and snug again.
Thanks.

Ya bet, glad that worked out.

 

[Randydb]

Horsewright - When I did the superglue method I used a gel superglue but it hardens very stiff like all the superglue I have. Is the gorilla glue superglue more flexible when it cures? Or does it all just dry firm and that is what you get with the sheathe. It isn't a problem, I just noticed the rigidity when it cured.
- I wasn't brave enough to put a spray of catalyst inside the sheath before putting the ca covered leather piece in. I was worried it would grab too quick. DO you ever have that problem? Or you still get a 10 second window or so before it grabs.

 

[Horsewright]

Horsewright - When I did the superglue method I used a gel superglue but it hardens very stiff like all the superglue I have. Is the gorilla glue superglue more flexible when it cures? Or does it all just dry firm and that is what you get with the sheathe. It isn't a problem, I just noticed the rigidity when it cured.
- I wasn't brave enough to put a spray of catalyst inside the sheath before putting the ca covered leather piece in. I was worried it would grab too quick. DO you ever have that problem? Or you still get a 10 second window or so before it grabs.

No I get the window of at least 10 secs if not a little more, using the accelerator. The Gorilla brand does dry firm, but my sheaths are firm already from the baking I do, so I haven't noticed a change there. I use to keep 3/4 different superglues around of different viscosities. Now I don't, the Gorilla glue one has replaced em all and works better than most.