Sheath-Makers - A question about finish

S

StretchNM

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Dec 7, 2006
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Somebody please give me their thoughts, whether from hands-on experience or something you read or just believe. I want to know what to use to get that "oil-tanned" look and feel.

I'm making a new sheath for a Barkie. I admire the Knives of Alaska sheaths which have no sheen - they're oil finished. That's how I want to finish my new sheath.

What do I use? Mink oil? Neatsfoot? Are there specific oils to use? I want to avoid that glossy sheen I get with traditional leather "finish and protectant".

Gracias
 
Pure Neatsfoot will provide you with an oil finish that's not shiny. Oil and let it dry thoroughly.
 
McCord's answer is correct, but a lot depends on the tannage of the leather you will be using. Vegatable tanned is probably the most common leather used for sheaths, at least by custom makers. Many of the factory type sheaths are made of oil retan leather. This has oils and waxes hot stuffed under pressure in the tanning process and may be what you should ask about if you haven't already obtained your leather. The veg tan has had most of the natural oils removed in the tanning process which is what makes it suitable for tooling and carving. You should oil the finished sheath several times with light to moderate coats of pure neatsfoot oil until you get the finish you desire. Do not immerse the sheath in the oil and do not put on heavy coats with each application.

Paul
 
Thanks fellows. I have 6-7 and 8-9 oz vegetable tanned leather from Tandys. I pick them out myself whenever I'm in Albuquerque.

Ok. I have dyed the leather. Is it still ok to use the neatsfoot oil? I would assume so. ANy tips on applying it if it's not to be soaked? In the instant case, the sheath is finished: molded, stitched, riveted, and dyed. It's awaiting a finish. In this case should I just pour the oil into the inside of the sheath to treat that or.... not worry about the inside?

Thanks for the rapid responses thus far.
 
One more question:
Can you "oil" the leather first, then wet-mold it to your knife?

I'm thinking you would have to wet-mold it first, then oil when everything's finished, but I'd like to hear some thoughts on that.
 
I rag on the neetsfoot oil using paper towels. Note it will darken your work, so take that into account when you think of your finished product and the color dye you're using. You may find you'll want to cut your dye some to account for that darkening.

Also, the amount of gloss you get from something like Super Shene depends heavily on the way you apply it. If you really glop it on you get a very shiny (and perhaps very streaky) seal. If you do a couple/few very light passes you may get a dull looking but still a good seal.

You may consider waxes, which I think will seal your work. But I've never worked with waxes. Note that the neetsfoot oil is not going to seal your leather from the elements, but will rather saturate the inner fibers with oil. If not sealed, that may leach out over time and need further oiling. Some people debate the effects of repeated applications of neetsfoot oil. Maybe it can break down the leather? I don't know, I haven't used it that much.

Just keep in mind that oiling and sealing are two different things. At least I like to keep that in mind.
 
Here's an example of heavy and light applications of Super Shene. The black sheath pictured first has a couple healthy applications of Super Shene over unoiled leather. The result is pretty firm leather that's very well sealed.

554737259_ac103c42b4_b.jpg


This second sheath was dyed, then oiled with neetsfoot, then given 2 extremely light coats of Super Shene. In my opinion this one has a much less shiny finish; I like this look too. Due to the oil it has an added supple feel about it which is nice.
2051508728_491afd2908_b.jpg


If you want to go less shiny than that last one and still have your work sealed, I'd like to know how, too. :thumbup:

(Re wet molding: I would do the wet shaping and let it completely dry before oiling. I have never done it the other way around; I would not expect it to work since the fibers would be saturated with oil and thus wouldn't take the water and soften enough to be molded.)
 
Thanks Mikey! Good info. I like that second sheath - that's the sheen and color I'm looking for. What dye did you use and what did you use to make the dimples?

Here's one of several I made. I like the color and sheen, but now I want to experiment to somewhat replicate the KOA sheaths..... kindly like yours.
Img_0209-2.jpg
 
Stretch, it's always wet form first, let dry completely and then oil. If you will flash dry it with a hair dryer it will harden the leather some which in the case of wet forming is an advantage. I am not much of a proponent of dyes, but if you will dye right after you oil the oil will carry the dye into the fibers slightly more evenly.

The dimples you referred to in the other man's sheath were done with a tool called a pear shader also available there at Tandy in ABQ.

I would also bet big that the leather you bought is IMPORTED and if so you can expect varying degrees of frustration when it comes to oiling and dying the leather. Wet forming might also be a chore. When buying leather I'd suggest you specify USA hides tanned in the USA, not USA hides tanned in Mexico or off shore and not foreign hides tanned in foreign places. Tandy may not even have any USA/USA in stock. Since you already have the leather it would serve you well to do some testing on the leather before you go full bore into the project. Experience is a harsh teacher.

Paul
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sheathmaker said:
If you will flash dry it with a hair dryer it will harden the leather some which in the case of wet forming is an advantage. I am not much of a proponent of dyes, but if you will dye right after you oil the oil will carry the dye into the fibers slightly more evenly.
Click to expand...

Good advice on a little heat during the drying phase. After wet-molding, what we used to do when I worked in small leather shop, was to hang holsters in large cardboard box then set up a small ceramic space heater about 2 foot outside the box. Provided enough heat to dry in a few hours versus overnight.

Application of oil depended on what we were oiling. Belts were quickly "run through" a large container of oil and the excess wiped off. Then hung out to dry. Large daubers were used on olsters and sheaths. For the pocket we'd dip the dauber and wring out most of the oil then coat the inside.
 
StretchNM said:
Thanks Mikey! Good info. I like that second sheath - that's the sheen and color I'm looking for. What dye did you use and what did you use to make the dimples?
Click to expand...

No problem. :D As Paul surmised, the pattern was stamped on, before wet molding or doing any dye or finish work, using a pear shader I got from Tandy. You'll note at the top of the stamped area under where the retention strap covers the front the stamping lost its crisp detail when I later did the wet molding. I tried to fix it up but it didn't turn out optimally. I'm still pretty new at this, too. :thumbup:

The dye is Fiebings British Tan (my favorite color so far) I got from Tandy. I ragged it on wet leather. The ragging (instead of daubing it on) produced the nice saturation on the ridges and less color in the deep stamped valleys. I like Paul's idea of dying on oiled leather for more even coloring; I'll have to try that.

So in short, my process on that sheath was:

. . . work on sheath with all pieces separate . . .

Wet leather of top/front and bottom/rear pieces
Tooling (the pear shader and grooving and whatnot)

. . . work more on sheath including final assembly and edging. . .

Wet leather
Dye
Let dry
Buff
Wet leather
Mold to shape
Let dry
Oil leather
Let soak in
2 coats Super Shene
Let dry
Buff
 
Excellent info from the three of you. Gracias!

Sheathmaker, I have no idea where the leather came from, but I've had no problems with it that I'm aware of (though you may *see* things that a beginner like me would miss). I've been wet molding (to get a nice, "pop" fit around the scales), then letting it dry. Then dampening to do my cheap-man's tooling. Then gluing, riveting, and sewing the belt loops. Then dampening the spine to re-open the sheath to dye the inside and glue in the welt. Then sewing and riveting to finish. THEN I've been dying and sheening.

I really want to try to get the look of Mikeymoto's sheath - a nice, light tan without much sheen, with that oil-finished appearance. I'm searching my ample woodworking shop trying to find something that will give me similar dimples without having to buy a special pear shader, though I'll buy one if I must.

McCord, I'm guessing you would hang the holsters in the box and away from direct heat to avoid drying too fast. Is that right? Last night I dried an oiled sheath up on the fireplace mantel, wrapped in a blue shop towel (fire burning in a toally-enclosed wood stove). I kept it way back from the edge somehow suspecting (but not knowing) that maybe I shouldn;t dry it too fast. It seems fine to me.
 
I sometimes close off a heater outlet inside and lay my work on top of the grate and the indirect heat from that helps a lot. Things take a long time to dry in my garage in Seattle between September and June. :D

Consider what your plans are for leather working. If you think you may want to make more ornamental sheaths, or maybe branch into other leather work too, you might think about learning about the different carving (stamping) tools for leather and picking up some of the highly used ones.

I've made somewhere around 15 or so sheaths now, and I'm getting into tooling so I can go back and make some decorated sheaths. It's pretty fun for me.

2074775699_9c44216baa.jpg
 
Stretch,
The box we used was about 2 foot long by about 2 foot high. We poked holes in the top and used straighted paperclips for hangers1. Like I said we kept the heater about 2 foot away from the opening to let the hot air circulate. We only did this when we were in a hurry. If we had time and it wasn't too humid, which in Florida isn't very often, we'd hang everything outside in a sunny spot and let nature do the work.

As for Tandy leather, like Sheathmaker said, a lot of, if not all, will be Mexican tanned. Either of Mexican hides or American hides. Wickett & Craig seems to be the brand most recommended. Hermann Oak is quality too, but more pricey than WC.
 
I tend to use the SuperShene ( light coat ) topped off with bagkote...
seems to give the finish I like... did that on these sheaths.
6.jpg


this one I used a bit too much shene for my tastes...
josh3.jpg
 
John, those are four beautiful blades!!!!! Could you throw in some pictures of their sheaths? ((( :D )))
 
I've used Fiebing's Leather Balm with Atom Wax as my top coat for many items. The caveat being that it's water resistant not water proof. It leaves the leather with a slight shine but not overly shiny.
 
I'm not a professional leather worker, and have minimal experience with making sheaths, but you could add some beeswax to your neatsfoot oil. The beeswax would help seal your leather against the elements.
 
Stretch I will see if I have any picts of those in their sheaths but all were sold right after finishing , so I need to check my backup hard drive for picts.

I have used the atom wax with great results as well.

Also have a neatsfoot & parrafin wax mix , that needs to be warmed to liquify before being wiped or brushed on , that works well also. All depends on what you want the final look to be.
 
John, by all means dig up the pics, but I was joking. The knifework is very good and overshadows the nice sheaths in the background ((( :D )))

I would be interested in hearing more about your knives (and prices) :thumbup:
 
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