Sheath makers, can you help me?

G

godogs57

Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
758
It's time I faced reality....I absolutely stink at dying leather. I buy vegetable tanned leather from numerous sources, mostly Tandy...their highest grade stuff. It seems that the lighter I want to dye, the worse results I get! My holy grail, so to speak, is to tan my sheaths the light brownish tan like you see with most commercialy produced pistol holsters...say, Bianchi. No matter what I do, it just won't turn out that way....streaks, splotches, godamighty...it just wont give me an evan, light brown color. I tried with the wool applicator thingy I got from Tandy...no go....tried applying with old t-shirts...no go. It seems that the first place I start applying the dye is the darkest and when the dye starts getting out of the t-shirt, etc...it lightens up, of course! The leather guru's told me that above all, you don't want to put too much dye on the leather....but I find myself doing just that when trying to even out the splotches. I usually just give up and just waterproof the bare leather. Now, the majority of my sheaths I leave un-dyed, and waterproof them with Sno-seal warmed over an oven eye. The results again turn out a splotchy, striped finished, not at all like the beautiful stuff I see here. I use Fiebings Oil dye I bought from Tandy if that helps diagnose the problem here.

My first thought: crappy grade leather, but some of the $$ stuff does it too.....If other folks and businesses can pull it off, so can I....what in the world am I doing wrong?

Oh yeah, my black sheaths (Fiebings Oil again) all dry with a whitish haze on the leather.....?????

Thanks so much in advance.....any help is sincerely appreciated!

Hank
 
the first thing that comes to mind when I hear about blotchy or streaked dying is oil/glue on the leather. I get this from time to time myself...you have to keep the leather CLEAN!!! oil from your hands will alter the dye and it will show up as spots...if you use glue to help hold the leather like rubber cement or contact cement it will show up when dyed and even if you rub the rubber cement off it will still show up like an oil spot when dyed...maybe someone else has some ideas but this is what I have run into
added: when I dye my sheaths black I use alot of dye and several coats...it will look streaked if I dont put enough layers on...and EVENLY not spot dying...
 
Assuming you're using an alcohol-based dye... have you tried dying it with the leather a little wet?

I've found it causes the color to bleed away from where you put the brush- which is a good thing in terms of getting it uniform and even across the surface.
 
the trick that i got from my leather mentor is to give it a good coat of neatsfoot oil then do your dye. using just the oil gives a nice color. here is what you get with just the oil.

oil.jpg
 
as you can see on the edges its darker thats because there was some ball point pen and the oil spreds it out.
 
Also are you deglazing your leather before you dye? Wash the sheath down with rubbing alcohol till it is uniformly damp then dye,This usually works well for me.
 
Well, there are several issues. First Tandy's leather( even the best) can be sketchy, and much of it is imported.I have had some good stuff in the past, but switched to Wickett and Craig and the leather is much better for toolin and taking dye.
As said the sheath should be deglazed beforehand with Acetone or Denatured alcohol. Then dampen the sheath and apply your dye. After it is dry, rub off any residue briskly with clean rag. Then reapply dye as needed to achieve the color desired but you must buff it out afterwards, then seal it with Leather Sheen, Tan-Kote, or Bag-Kote.Dave:)
 
Well...thanks for the help! I use the oil based dye, not the alcohol based dye. Would it be better if I switched?? Tonight I used some of Tandy's "Eco" dye...a water based dye that is supposed to be better for our environment. It is gel, not liquid, and I found it did not penetrate as well. Thumbs down. And this was on the $$$$$ stuff from Tandy...their best grade vege tanned stuff. I also am very careful not to get glue on the leather...one of the first lessions I learned...firsthand.

As for wetting it down before dyeing, I have never done that. I have, however, wiped down with alcohol and really did not see any difference. Tried Acetone and it was a little rough on the leather in my opinion.

JT, If I use neatsfoot oil, I would be shooting myself in the foot if I used anything other than oil based dye right??? Stupid question, I know....but I ain't no expert on this as you can tell.

Thanks again for all your help...sure is appreciated...
 
I'm by no means an expert at anything but have you tried wearing rubber gloves when you work the leather? I have no idea if this is your problem or not but I know some people who have certain chemical reactions with things because of acidity, ph, or something in the oils on their skin. I know one person who cannot pick up a magazine without the ink on the covers just melting on his hands.

The above suggestions are probably worth more than mine but trying to dye one or two sheaths wearing gloves while handling the leather might be worth trying. I wear them to help keep the dye off of my hands and to avoid contact with the acetone.

SDS
 
I'm not a leather expert, but my wife works a lot in leather and one of the things we found to help with an even dye is Preval spayers. it is kind of a small airbrush set up that allows for a covering the leather quickly and pretty evenly. Apply, then buff slightly.

typically she isn't looking for a lighter shade of brown though. At one point, Tandy sold a type of leather that came in a darker tan/brown color. There was talk of discontinuing, so it may no longer be available, but an oil seal over it might be the shade your looking for.

And for lightening a dye, you may want to look at thinning it out. I would talk to the Tandy staff about what best to cut the dye with, but that would also help given you the light color.

OR(sorry, so many options) you may look at their stains/antigueing rather than dye. it would give a darker than regular leather, but not dark brown color.

hope that helps
Kindyr
 
I am new to leatherwork but have gotten black perfect. I wear disposable gloves and apply two coats of black dye. The first coat always looks poor. The marks on the sheath from glue or whatever show up clearly at this point. I then sand those marks back to the raw leather and apply another coat of dye. Perfect black over pen lines and all. After that I use a waterproofer that comes in a bottle like the dye (plastic bottle). First coat looks white and streaky. Second coat fixes all that and gets a nice shine. Can do a third coat to make it even better. Everything gets applied with a sponge (cheap dish sponge). Havent tried other colours yet though.
 
Deglaze the leather as above, then apply an oil based dye (fielblings). Before the dye dries completely, apply a light coat of lexol and the dye should even out.
 
My holy grail, so to speak, is to tan my sheaths the light brownish tan like you see with most commercialy produced pistol holsters...say, Bianchi.
Click to expand...
FWIW - one problem - Bianchi tan holsters aren't dyed - just "colored" with warm neats foot oil - use Lexol Non-greasy NF, heat to a 115°, and apply a LIGHT coat (wipe off any excess) , let set and do again if necessary.

When dying:
1) Deglaze as noted above
2) Dampen and then dye
3) When dying slop it on in heavy coats or just dip it - that's how I do mine and after 40+ years it's the simplest way to do it when possible.

the trick that i got from my leather mentor is to give it a good coat of neatsfoot oil then do your dye
Click to expand...
This works but I HIGHLY recommend doing that way only if you are then finishing with a seal coat such as Neat Lac, Super Shene, etc. If not you will not just may have dye rub off forever - the oil will act as a carrier and pull the dye to the surface - ask me how I know....:mad: :confused: :mad:
BTW - Water does the same thing as the oil opens the pores and evens the pre-dyed surface making it easier for the dye to penetrate.....
 
Thanks again for your help. For what its worth, I always use rubber gloves. I tried the alchol trick tonight....rubbed it on and while wet used the saddle tan oil finish (Fiebings) and got a perfect finish the first time I tried it. I was very pleased....thanks for revealing that little trick to me!

Another question: What is the advantage/disadvantage of oil versus alcohol based dyes. I always used oil based.

And is there any difference between Tandy's deglazer and just plain ol alcohol for the wetting step?

Your help is very much appreciated.

Hank
 
I'm not a pro at leather work for sure, but I have gotten fairly good at dying and finishing leather even though there is always room for improvement. This is a method I learned from a guy that does all sorts of leatherwork and works at the local Tandy store. I have spent hours with him talking about this stuff. My methods are as follows:

1. Of course do all tooling and stamping first as well as any wet fitting

2. deglaze with acetone or alcohol

3. while the leather is still a little damp from deglazing start dying your leather (I use fiebings dyes); the little swabs on a stick work ok, but if you want to dye it really even buy some sheepswool and cut little pieces of it out. Trim down the fur a little and use that to dye instead- make sure to get enough dye into the leather; on the contrary from what has been said above using too much doesn't really matter all that much because it can be buffed off when it dries. Don't try and lighten the dying by putting less dye-that doesn't work so well. The color of the dye that you pick is what you are aiming for- if you want a lighter color get a lighter dye (you can tone it down by diluting it but I find it doesn't come out as even). Make sure to cover all the leather with a nice even coat and just keep rubbing it on until you are there.

4. Let totally dry- don't try and mess with it too early!!

5. Using a dry rag buff off all excess dye; don't stop buffing until you see the rag coming off clean.

6. Apply a coat of neatsfoot oil; the wetting of the leather and deglazer takes some of the oil out of the leather and it needs to be put back in.

7. Let dry

8. Put on your final finish; I use tan-kote because I don't like the glossy finish that the acrylic coatings give you. Rub it on evenly with the sheepswool and let it dry totally. I find this final coat the hardest to apply evenly. If it dries uneven you can take it off with a little alcohol rubdown and try again.

9. After this dries buff it up with a clean cotton rag.

10. Now I bevel the edges of the leather sheath.

11. Using a belt grinder I even out the edges of the leather.

12. I now apply edge-kote or a dye to the edge of the leather.

13. After that's dry, wet the edge a little and rub some beeswax on it. Then using a piece of canvas rub the edge quickly to burnish it. You can also use gum targanath and you can use a little plastic piece that can be put on a drill press to do the edges (forget the name of that piece but it's cheaply found at most leather stores)

Should be just about done now!

there is also an easy way to get rubber cement and barge cement off of the leather. Buy one of those rubber sticks that is used to clean belts on a belt grinder. Cut a couple slices off the end. All you have to do is rub the spot that the glue is on a bit with that slice of rubber and it should come off.

Hope that helps some!
 
godogs57,

Buy yourself a present and get the video "Custom Knife Sheaths with Chuck Burrows
2004" aka Wild Rose. You won't be sorry. A lot of information from a professional leather worker. I bought it a couple years ago and it's well worth the money. I'm sure other people can chime in here about it also.

You can get it here: http://ccinstructionalvideos.com/burrows_sheaths.htm
 
I have had great luck with spraying dye into leather instead of rubbing it. You have to be very carful not to "blind" the leather with too much dye at once. I wonder if you are blinding your sheaths in a major way by rubbing on the dye. Multiple light coats with a light pressure gun works best. You can also buy dye in rattle cans.

Dye quality makes a huge difference. Parasol Inc. makes great dye.
 
jims68ragtop said:
I have had great luck with spraying dye into leather instead of rubbing it. You have to be very carful not to "blind" the leather with too much dye at once. I wonder if you are blinding your sheaths in a major way by rubbing on the dye. Multiple light coats with a light pressure gun works best. You can also buy dye in rattle cans.

Dye quality makes a huge difference. Parasol Inc. makes great dye.
Click to expand...

Spraying is a superior method; I also have seen some pros dip dye as well. Fill a bucket with dye, plug the top and dip it in- I think this method is probably the best, but at the same time you've got to be doing a good number of sheaths to want to spend that much money on dye.
 
I had trouble with my leather not coloring right, bought the DVD on leather work by Wildrose. He shows dipping the leather in the dye. I have had better sucess since doing it this way.
 
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