Sheath making with dyed leather

H

hawkinsa21

Joined
Jan 5, 2007
Messages
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Hey guys, sorry if this is posted in the wrong section, mods please move if necessary! :)

I just bought a bunch of shoulder leather, 8oz high quality stuff, but after I bought it (ebay) I realised it was dyed black. The seller stated on the sale that it was perfect tooling leather, and would be great for craft work... their business is a leather shop, so I guess they know what they are talking about.


My question is this:

Is pre-dyed leather any good for sheath making?? I am not familiar with how the dye affects the properties of the leather, I would assume it makes it tighter or harder to work with... but really don't know, hence asking here...

Have I wasted my money?


Thanks guys


Alex
 
More importantly is how was the leather tanned? If it's not vegetable tanned leather you can have issues with material leaching out of the leather and damaging your blade! :eek:

Otherwise, from what little I have seen, some people dye their leather before they put a sheath together, while others do the dying later in the process. I dye later, but I can count the number of knife sheaths I've made on one hand, so I am by no means an expert in this trade.

If the leather is stiff, which can happen after dying, you can make it supple again by using a conditioner on the leather. The conditioner will moisturize the leather and make it softer again. So far I have been using a conditioner called "Leather Amore" which I got from my local Tandy leather store. On the upside, since the leather is already dyed you won't have to worry about any kind of shrinkage later in your crafting process.

My feeling is that you may not want to condition your leather, though, until after your sheath is put together. Unless you need to fold it over or really flex it for your pattern. I say that because after you condition the leather it will be more susceptible to damage from stray fingernails or other accidental damage that might be sustained while you're working on it.

Note that if you're going to use a groover for stitching, or an edge to finish your sheath's edges, or other tooling, you may expose undyed portions of leather. If that's the case you might need to re-dye sections unless you like a two-tone look. That's another reason to hold off on conditioning until at least after you've done the tooling.

Please let us know how it goes! I find leather work (for sheaths at least) to be a relaxing, absorbing, and challenging activity (especially since it is not my profession).
 
mikey, thanks for your reply! Before I go any further, I was gob smacked at your fantastic FBM sheath on the Busse forum, top stuff... I know you were worried about the back, but the front looks like it should be in a magazine or something :thumbup:


OK, it is veg tanned, which I should have mentioned... and the fact that you say some makers dye before making a sheath, has put me a lot more at ease!


I will be finishing the edges as best as possible.. I have a starter leather making kit, which includes the compound you rub on the edges to burnish them... I also have a sharp bradawl to poke my holes through, but I may use a dremmel with a thin bit.. I have a 1mm drill bit that I used to knock up a temporary sheath for the blade...

Also, when you made the stitching holes, did you secure the leather in any kind of vice?? Using a sharp implement like a brand new bradawl is dangerous on thicker leather as when it pops through, you can do some nasty damage to yourself!... and did you use a special tool to make the stitching trench??


Top man mikey, thanks for your input again


Alex :D
 
For the stitching trench I used a tool called a groover. Then I used an overstitch wheel to mark where the holes should go. I like to then press my awl ever so slightly into the impressions made by the overstitch wheel to make clear marks, then move over to my drill press with 1/16" bit to go through the leather.

People recommend that you not groove the back-side of your project until you have already made your stitching holes. Then you just groove along the back where the holes are (or will be if you didn't punch all the way through).

Personally I think a drill is the way to go, especially for a sheath the size of the FBM!! :eek: Punching through that many layers with an awl, very many times, seems a painful prospect for the hands, arms, and shoulders. But whatever gets you better results!

Good luck to you! :thumbup:
 
mikey, thats a great response, and you've answered all my questions...


Thanks a million bud! I will let you know how this project goes once the leather is here, and my baby girl gives me time to get stuck in!
 
mikeymoto said:
Personally I think a drill is the way to go, especially for a sheath the size of the FBM!! Punching through that many layers with an awl, very many times, seems a painful prospect for the hands, arms, and shoulders. But whatever gets you better results!
Click to expand...

In an old issue of the Leathercrafters and Saddlers Journal, someone did an article talking about the strength of stitching holes made with a drill versus an awl. In a follow up article, Dusty Johnson related how he did an indepth study of the two methods. His results are that the drill holes are stronger. His theory is that the awl tears the leather while the drill removes the leather without leaving a place for a tear to start.

He said something to effect that some people will be resistant to due it that way because all the old time saddle makers did it with an awl. He concluded by saying they did it with an awl because they lacked electric drills!

I've used a dremel for almost all my projects. Especially something like a belt or strap with a lot of stitching holes.

hawkinsa21 said:
Also, when you made the stitching holes, did you secure the leather in any kind of vice??
Click to expand...

Get a lacing pony if you don't plan to due a lot of hand ewing. They're available from most leather suppliers, but if you look at the photo you can probably figure out how to make your own. If you plan on doing a lot of different size projects, you might want to look into a stitching horse. Its larger and has a seat for you to sit. Al Stohlman gave plans for a homemade version in his "The Art of Hand Sewing Leather" book.
 
The dyed leather will be fine. Depending on what you eventually treat it with, some dye may leach out. Sort of like the first wash on new clothes.

If it's stiff, wet it with denatured alcohol (isopropanol), bend it to the shape you want and let it dry. This also works for forming to shape around handles etc.

If you use an awl, push through the leather into a piece of soft wood (pine, balsa) on a table or bench. That will protect both you and the work surface. If you use a square shank awl you can twist it as it goes in to drill the hole, or you can just use a drill as others have suggested.

I use an awl or a punch if the leather's too thick for just a "speedy stitcher" alone mainly because I like to stitch as I go and I don't like mixing strong thread with rotating machinery
 
McCord and Mahoney, thanks for the extra info!!!

I knew that using a small drill bit would be easier than hand punching all the holes, but thought that as it removes the leather, an awl would probably make the sheath more water proof, as the awl would mean that the leather just closed up... but I guess if I use enough waxed thread, then I can make it fit snug...

But then there's the strength issue... I would much prefer a stronger more durable sheath, so I'll be using the dremmel from now on ;)


Thanks guys, you've really helped out a lot
 
M. McCord said:
In an old issue of the Leathercrafters and Saddlers Journal, someone did an article talking about the strength of stitching holes made with a drill versus an awl. In a follow up article, Dusty Johnson related how he did an indepth study of the two methods. His results are that the drill holes are stronger. His theory is that the awl tears the leather while the drill removes the leather without leaving a place for a tear to start.

He said something to effect that some people will be resistant to due it that way because all the old time saddle makers did it with an awl. He concluded by saying they did it with an awl because they lacked electric drills!

I've used a dremel for almost all my projects. Especially something like a belt or strap with a lot of stitching holes.



Get a lacing pony if you don't plan to due a lot of hand ewing. They're available from most leather suppliers, but if you look at the photo you can probably figure out how to make your own. If you plan on doing a lot of different size projects, you might want to look into a stitching horse. Its larger and has a seat for you to sit. Al Stohlman gave plans for a homemade version in his "The Art of Hand Sewing Leather" book.
Click to expand...

This is may be because many leather awls has spear like tip or chisel like, I notice that with round tip leather tend to close hole becaus material are not removed, so it adds more pressure on thread and make it more water proof. I use drill for inner layers but for top and bottom I use round tip awl.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I've had good success using the drill press, with a twist (no pun intended): instead of using a twisted drill bit, I use a brad (small nail) with the head nipped off. Just tighten in the chuck just like a drill bit. You can use the leverage of the press to punch holes in 8oz leather without evening turning the motor on. A little beeswax on the brad every now and then helps. Or you can use a slow speed on the motor (helps avoid burning the leather around the hole.)

Here's a photo of the 1st 3 sheaths made a few weeks ago.

P5180207.jpg
 
Super Dave said:
I've had good success using the drill press, with a twist (no pun intended): instead of using a twisted drill bit, I use a brad (small nail) with the head nipped off. Just tighten in the chuck just like a drill bit. You can use the leverage of the press to punch holes in 8oz leather without evening turning the motor on. A little beeswax on the brad every now and then helps. Or you can use a slow speed on the motor (helps avoid burning the leather around the hole.)

Here's a photo of the 1st 3 sheaths made a few weeks ago.

P5180207.jpg
Click to expand...


Very nice sheaths they are too Super Dave! Good idea with the nail thing... I'm really enjoying leather working, and I've bought a book for beginners on all aspects of leather craft... I think I will be getting a few more tools to go with it as well :thumbup:

It certainly is fun :)
 
I have been using an awl to do my sheaths, and the one for a Scrapyard Dumpster Mutt was a bit of work to punch by hand (mics at 0.763 inches thick at 5 layers). I have a dremel, but not sure what bit to use to make the holes. I tried the smallest bit I have, but it can only penetrate a couple of layers and then binds up on the shaft of the bit.
Thanks! Chuck
 
cjpgeyer said:
I have a dremel, but not sure what bit to use to make the holes. I tried the smallest bit I have, but it can only penetrate a couple of layers and then binds up on the shaft of the bit.
Thanks! Chuck
Click to expand...

Chuck,
Dremel makes a set of bits ranging in sizes the largest being 1/8". So they're smaller than most available bits. I personally use a 1/16". By going with a smaller bit you'll get a tighter seam.

Then using about a medium speed drill the holes, pulling the bit back out as needed to clear the leather from the bit. If you doing a lot of layers you'll need to have the bit as far out as possible from the collet on the dremel.

If it's binding up you're probably going a little too slow. Speed the dremel up if its adjustable. If the speed is high and it's still not working then maybe the bit isn't locked in tight enough in the collet?

The thickest I've done is three layers of 12 oz and I had no problem with the drill.

But just like anything go slow until you're comfortable with it.
 
cjpgeyer said:
I have been using an awl to do my sheaths, and the one for a Scrapyard Dumpster Mutt was a bit of work to punch by hand (mics at 0.763 inches thick at 5 layers). I have a dremel, but not sure what bit to use to make the holes. I tried the smallest bit I have, but it can only penetrate a couple of layers and then binds up on the shaft of the bit.
Thanks! Chuck
Click to expand...

I drill using Dremel (with Dremel drill press) 2, 3 and 4th layers - anyway I sew them first, then when I add 1 and 5th layers I use awl, in result stitches are not quite straight, but I hope they are stronger, and I paint it over - hide it a bit. This two what I manage to make so far:

Sheath-32.jpg


I use drill bits from local hardware shop - they have a lot of thin drills, even thinner then awl or nidle. Also Drimel now have 4 sizes of head, so I can use smallest drill bits.

Thanks, Vassili.

P.S. Here more pictures of making process with instructions in Russian (Sorry).

http://playground.sun.com/~vasya/Napoleon-sheath-2.html
 
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