Sheaths: What do you expect out of them?

[Dorito Monk]

I recently bought an ESEE-4 to replace my Gerber Yari 2 Tanto as a general all-around outdoors fixed blade. I've carried the Yari 2 quite a lot and have been pretty satisfied with it, but whenever I needed it, I found that the knife itself wasn't really up to the tasks. The ESEE 4 seems to have all the characteristics I wanted out of a fixed blade, and is extremely well made, but I just don't like the sheath. I've even paid extra and bought the Molle-backing for the sheath, but this doesn't really suit me, either. I find that the adjustable tension of the kydex sheath is set up so that I must either choose between having really easy access to the knife, in which case it tends to fall out when I'm not careful, or being unable to access the knife at all because the sheath is so tight. Plus, I find the standard sheath is a pain in the butt to attach to a belt in the first place.

As a result, I've found that I simply don't carry the knife most of the time because I don't like the sheath system. The solution for me will probably be to look at aftermarket leather sheaths from other companies or something, but it just doesn't see much use in the meantime.

This got me thinking, though... There's a pretty big market for aftermarket sheaths of all kinds - kydex, leather, whatever. A whole lot of folks aren't satisfied with the sheaths their knives come with, one way or another - A lot of companies either put out a bad sheath (not the case with my ESEE, to be sure, but something that's a problem with a lot of knives out there), or put out a sheath system with somewhat limited options for carry. Occasionally, when folks complain about a knife from X company being accompanied by a sheath they don't like, they're met with comments like "The company's called '_____ Knife and Tool,' not '_____ Sheath and Tool', their focus is on knives not sheaths" or something along those lines. People seem somewhat divided on the issue of sheaths - some folks seem to consider the sheath to be something extra, or something which can be readily modified or exchanged and isn't a big deal, while others might pass a knife by entirely if it doesn't come equipped with a sheath option that suits them. Obviously, companies can't cater to everyone, and making a good sheath system is just not a priority for some companies.

My questions are: When you buy a fixed blade knife, is it just the knife itself that affects your buying decision, or are the sheath options a major factor for you? If you like the looks of a knife but hate the sheath it comes with, will you still buy it, or will you think twice? Are you willing to pay for aftermarket sheaths, or do you just go with what the manufacturer provides?

I'm interested to hear what your take on this is.

 

[HoosierQ]

I did this for my ESEE-4.

 

[Moosez45]

I have yet to find a knife maker that puts emphasis on their sheath. Custom makers, yeah, they do, but its part of the package. Most knife manufacturers, make knives, and buy sheaths.

To keep the prices right, they buy cheap sheaths. We all know my preferred production knife manufacturer, but for those that are just showing up, its Becker Knife and Tool, to which you were referencing in your post. No harm intended or inferred.

Due to feedback from the forums and Facebook, Kabar is stepping up their take on the sheaths for ALL of their knives. But, they buy bulk, and if you can get one sheath that will fit 3 models, that means you can buy them cheaper.

I started making leather and kydex sheaths, because the ones that come with almost all knives I own, suck. Period.

Buck 110 for example, used to come with a fabulous, leather sheath, premolded, thick leather, and good stitching. Now, they come with some flimsy nylon.

ESEE3-injection molded plastic, ESEE4-kydex, Izula-IMP, ESEE5-Kydex, ESEE6-IMP, Junglas-Kydex. They all are good at their job, which is to protect you from the blade, and keep it with you. In that front, they work.
p
Kabar-leather, IMP and nylon with an insert. Leather-Hecho en Mexico, IMP-Taiwan, Nylon-USA (yup, you heard me.....not all but soon)

Busse- Cardboard
Swamp Rat-Cardboard
Blind Horse Knives-leather, well made, made by one of the owner's wives, in house.
Kershaw-nylon with a plastic insert

There are many choices on the market, but I don't consider them on the scale as Double Barrel, Kiahdex, or many of the other makers that just reside here.

It seems that if you want to get a "good" sheath, you gotta start looking at the secondary markets, Spec Ops, Maxpedition, Texas Hunt Co., Remington Tactical, and lots of others.

But if you look at the basic function of the sheath, its to keep you safe from the knife during transport, and to keep the knife with you, and that's all a knife maker is really looking at.

I just went to my cabinet, and looked at the sheaths that I have on most of my knives, almost all of them are from a secondary maker, not the original factory sheaths.

The only ones that have factory original sheaths, are my (gasp) Moras, and my vintage BKT, which are either Brommeland leather (holy cow!!) or older Eagle Industries.

Moose

 

[marcinek]

Production sheathes often suck, in my book. I hate them. In fact, I got a bunch of fixed blades that need good custom leather sheathes made. (Shame I don't have the money to do it! ) Maybe I'm a sheath snob.

I do beleive that sheath quality can be overlooked by knife manufacturers. Sheath making is not a no-brainer.

 

[OrdnanceBubbaUSMC]

As long as it works and is actually designed for the knife purchased, then it's ok with me.

I don't like generic sheaths or high priced fixed blades that don't include one pretending to keep cost down.

A Mora costs $10-12 and comes with a functional sheath...unless it's for the kitchen or wall display, send it with a decent sheath.

 

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

For me the sheath has to comfortably carry the knife on my hip or neck. I refuse to buy a custom knife (most of my recent fixed blades) unless it comes with a sheath- how can I carry and use it if there is no sheath. I'm not too picky, but retention is key. I never carry my Bark River Mini or Micro Canadian knives because they house the blade, but have no blade retention qualities. Deep carry, no strap sheaths that hold the knife in place without being bulky or having sharp corners to dig in are easy to make, and must be part of the package if I am to purchase them. Stating that most people will get another sheath is just a cop out for laziness in my book, and does detract from the maker in my eyes.

 

[The Logical One]

For fixed blades, the sheath is just as important as the knife IMO, so if it's a nice knife I expect it to be wrapped in an equally nice sheath. A few months back I bought a bark river bravo which is an excellent knife.... but the sheath is absolute CRAP. I was going to have someone custom make a leather sheath but I ended up having him make me a knife to go along with the sheath instead. I returned the bark river.

I'm as much of a sheath guy as I am a knife guy.

 

[VictorKilo]

Best production sheaths I have came with Condors, and that just blows my mind for the price. Busse & kin are my majority fixed blades, despite their questionably versatile tactical cardboard blade covers. Nothing a bit of kydex pressing and third-party sources couldn't fix. If you want to make life easy, find a solid pouch-style leather sheath that will handle 7"-10" knives, for example, and just use that for everything.

A poor (or absent) sheath won't stop me from buying a solid knife. A high-quality sheath as part of a package could push me towards a sale. In the case of the Junglas, I bought one sans-sheath and just pressed a kydex blade cover since I never intend to have it on my belt, which saved me $60. Rather nuanced conditions for an issue I've never consciously put much though into.

 

[KuRUpTD]

I like a nice sheath but in the long run it's the knife I'm really interested in

JRE Industries makes a nice aftermarket sheath for the ESEE 4

 

[marcinek]

I like a nice sheath but in the long run it's the knife I'm really interested in

JRE Industries makes a nice aftermarket sheath for the ESEE 4

Nice, indeed. If you don't mind me asking, is the back of the snap for the strap "covered" in any way? Or does it come in contact with the knife? I hate that!!!

 

[Planetcat]

To answer your question, I definitely consider the sheath to influence the purchase of the knife, but it's influence is limited by how much I like the knife. I've had one custom sheath made (kydex for Fallkniven F2), because I couldn't stand the OE one. My dilemma on sheaths is that I like a medium/high ride on my belt, but prefer leather over kydex style and most of the higher riding production sheaths hang down from the belt. Kydex is easier to clean than leather. I also like nylon sheaths with accessory pouches for small folders or leatherman tool when bow hunting. I guess the sheath design depends on what the use is. If I could have it exactly the way I wanted it would be (1) medium to high ride on my belt (5" or shorter fixed blade), (2) be leather, and (3) have an accessory pouch for leatherman too. I have yet to find one.

 

[mac_heath]

I don't usually pay much attention to the sheath when I buy a knife. I want something I can keep the blade in until I make a kydex sheath myself, but that's about it. Most important is that the sheath not dull the edge. Regardless of the sheath quality, I find my carry preferences rarely match up with the sheath that comes with the knife.

I do care about the sheath for really large blades, because I don't have the resources or skill to make one myself at this point. I was very pleased with the sheath that came with my Condor Golok.

 

[Jack Black]

Production sheathes often suck, in my book. I hate them. In fact, I got a bunch of fixed blades that need good custom leather sheathes made. (Shame I don't have the money to do it! )

I hear you! I've had knives for over a decade that I'd like to get a decent sheath for. There's a couple I'd like kydex for, but there's not many kydex makers over here.

 

[marcinek]

I hear you! I've had knives for over a decade that I'd like to get a decent sheath for. There's a couple I'd like kydex for, but there's not many kydex makers over here.

Sounds familiar. I think, for me, after I got my first really well made custom sheath, it really ruined production sheathes for me. And, yes, it's "snobbish." And, yes, I can't afford that level of snobbishness.

But a well-made, well-thought out sheath? I'm into them.

 

[Jack Black]

Nice, indeed. If you don't mind me asking, is the back of the snap for the strap "covered" in any way? Or does it come in contact with the knife? I hate that!!!

Me too, but then I hate having the strap there all together.

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[Charlie Mike]

I supply all my knives with sheaths. Most of the time, they are made to the customer's needs.

 

[Ramil839]

I expect the sheath to be rugged and hard to break/cut,i like kydex personally because i only see it breaking in -40c weather,otherwise any fall or impact will be like throwing a rock at a bull.I also like when a sheath has a pouch,I can be forgetful at times and having redundant items is a nice feature.The downside of kydex I must mention is when its cold and your knife is wet its difficult and dangerous to take it out.

 

[woody d]

i dont like synthetic sheaths whatsoever so nowadays most fixed blades of my liking require some type of aftermarket leather.
the same can be said for pistols as well...i buy leather for my carry guns

 

[chiral.grolim]

My questions are:When you buy a fixed blade knife, is it just the knife itself that affects your buying decision, or are the sheath options a major factor for you? If you like the looks of a knife but hate the sheath it comes with, will you still buy it, or will you think twice? Are you willing to pay for aftermarket sheaths, or do you just go with what the manufacturer provides?

For me, it boils down to the price of the knife + a sheath of sufficient quality and utility to allow me to carry and use the knife safely and conveniently.
What this means: if I really like the knife and think that the price is reasonable for the knife alone, I'll get it. I may even get that knife over another knife that does include a sheath (even one of decent quality) in the price if I consider other aspects of the design superior. Granted, I will try to get the knife as inexpensively as possible. But it's a cost benefit analysis, price : performance, the reason I have more Swamp Rats than ESEEs or Beckers at the moment. Rats cost more and lack a sheath but I prefer their ergonomics and materials. Why pay a discounted price for a knife I won't enjoy using as much, even if it does come with a sheath? I want what the KNIFE has to offer first.
Then I look at the cost of a sheath for the knife. ~$15 materials + elbow-grease can usually get me a suitable leather or kydex sheath. I'll pay more for one of impressive quality (as my eyes see it) or for something I want and cannot easily make on my own. If a knife comes with an unsuitable sheath, I'll add into its price the cost (time+money) of a replacement sheath and decide if it is still worth the price or if another knife would be a 'better' choice. If a knife comes with an excellent sheath, I might choose it over a less expensive alternative.
Two reason that i do not mind knives coming without sheaths:
a) if it is a crappy sheath then I'll need to replace it anyway. Why not offer the knife at a lower price by not including a sheath at all? If some of my money is paying for junk, I might spend that money elsewhere.
b) if it's a very high quality sheath that increases the price of the knife substantially, I might not need a sheath that fancy. Why not offer the knife at a lower price by not including a sheath at all? I might not want to pay for extra features that I don't really appreciate.

These same principles apply to other knife accessories, and they seem to explain some of the reasoning behind, for example, Becker and also Scrapyard - knives very similar to another company but with fewer 'bells & whistles' that would otherwise increase cost of the final product.

 

[james terrio]

Naturally, my perspective is very different from that of a factory.

I'll second the notion that good production knives, and even some great handmade knives, often have "afterthought" sheaths... cobbled together and not very practical or sturdy. That's not always a bad thing from my point of view, because my wife and I sometimes put groceries on the table making better sheaths for folks who are otherwise happy with their factory blades. Not to drift too far off-topic, but I've also kept the lights on by putting new handles on factory knives... in all honesty, those clients could have gone full-custom by the time they bought an off-the-shelf knife and paid me to make a new sheath and rebuild the handle to suit them... but I digress.

That's not always the case of course... my Mora Clipper has an excellent sheath and handle - it's butt-ugly, but almost fool-proof. It's very inexpensive, but it's a dang smart design and it functions extremely well.

I supply all my knives with sheaths. Most of the time, they are made to the customer's needs.

Right on! I've learned the hard way, a good sheath is an absolute must for a custom/handmade maker putting out user knives. I can barely sell a knife without a sheath, simply because building the knife, sending it to a top-notch sheathmaker, paying him/her for their skill and materials, then shipping it on to the client just adds too much cost and time. People generally want to see or custom-order a complete package and put it to work ASAP.

Making sheaths isn't my very favorite part of the process, but luckily my wife puts a lot of work into helping me design and build good ones. Clients who're willing to pay for a top-notch, hard-working handmade knife deserve an equally sturdy and functional sheath, and shouldn't have to jump through a lot of hoops or wait an extra month to get it. I prefer leather myself, but I'm learning to embrace Kydex as well.

So what do we strive for in our sheaths?
A) Safety first. The knife simply must not fall out of, or cut its way through the sheath under anything resembling normal wear or use.
B) Longevity. It's really not that difficult to build a sheath from tough materials and intelligent construction principles, that will serve well for many years, if not a lifetime or two.
C) Comfort. It should be easy to wear all day, and not overly bulky.

There are plenty other attributes like extra pockets, horizontal carry, pretty inlays and so forth, but those considerations have to be addressed after the main three are met.