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Shelf life of bottled water?
- Thread starter balrog
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2004
- Messages
- 1,447
Aerobic Oxygen works great for treating emergency stored drinking water, it ia also great for purification. It removes chlorine, and kills Salmonella, Streptococcus, E. coli, Pseudomonas, Staphylococcus, and even Giardia-Lamblia. I buy mine at Brigade Quartermaster (www.actiongear.com). I have two five gallon jugs of water I keep in my garage I usually change out the water every couple years and just add 10-20 drops of Aerobic Oxgen to the water.
Some have reported the presence of bacteria in bottled water. Aparently they can get energy to live from light or dissolved nutrients.
From a health standpoint, I can't really see where bacteria present in unopened, sealed bottles of water would 1) accumulate to a significant population or 2) have a high likelihood of being a harmful type. Almost no water is sterile. Water with some bacteria in it (or even a lot of a non-harmful type) is perfectly safe to drink. As long as it is clear and colorless, there probably isn't a danger of developing a harmful population of bacteria.
The thing I would worry about is chemicals permeating through the containers. A garage would be a bad place to store water, for example.
Basically, if the water was safe to drink when it was sealed, and nothing permeates into it, it will remain safe to drink for as long as you care to store it.
I put water in 5-gallon polyethylene water cans. I but a little bleach in it, then seal it airtight.
If you really want to prepare some clean water, do this:
1) Filter it through a 1-micron or better filter (removes small, highly resistant cycsts like crypto).
2) Add some new, unopened, unscented bleach (oxidizes some potential bug food, kills bugs).
3) Add a little alum, stir, and let stand a day (coagulates colloids and makes them settle out).
4) filter the clear stuff through an activated carbon filter (removes volatiles, chlorine contaminants, and a few others).
If there are no colloids to begin with, skip the alum. You can test this by shining a laser through the water. If you see the beam, you have suspended stuff, probably colloids. A 5-gallon glass carboy would be ideal for this batch treatment. They can be found at brew shops and winemaking supply shops.
But remember, you don't need to have reagent-grade water for drinking purposes. It just needs to keep you from getting sick.
Scott
From a health standpoint, I can't really see where bacteria present in unopened, sealed bottles of water would 1) accumulate to a significant population or 2) have a high likelihood of being a harmful type. Almost no water is sterile. Water with some bacteria in it (or even a lot of a non-harmful type) is perfectly safe to drink. As long as it is clear and colorless, there probably isn't a danger of developing a harmful population of bacteria.
The thing I would worry about is chemicals permeating through the containers. A garage would be a bad place to store water, for example.
Basically, if the water was safe to drink when it was sealed, and nothing permeates into it, it will remain safe to drink for as long as you care to store it.
I put water in 5-gallon polyethylene water cans. I but a little bleach in it, then seal it airtight.
If you really want to prepare some clean water, do this:
1) Filter it through a 1-micron or better filter (removes small, highly resistant cycsts like crypto).
2) Add some new, unopened, unscented bleach (oxidizes some potential bug food, kills bugs).
3) Add a little alum, stir, and let stand a day (coagulates colloids and makes them settle out).
4) filter the clear stuff through an activated carbon filter (removes volatiles, chlorine contaminants, and a few others).
If there are no colloids to begin with, skip the alum. You can test this by shining a laser through the water. If you see the beam, you have suspended stuff, probably colloids. A 5-gallon glass carboy would be ideal for this batch treatment. They can be found at brew shops and winemaking supply shops.
But remember, you don't need to have reagent-grade water for drinking purposes. It just needs to keep you from getting sick.
Scott
- Joined
- Apr 27, 1999
- Messages
- 6,117
Your real problems are more likely to be algae rather than bacteria. If the water is exposed to light algae can grow with only a slight amount of nutrients. If you cover the bottles tightly with aluminum foil it will help. I have a large freezer in my garage. I keep some jugs of water in the freezer. If the power goes out it helps to keep things cold. The inside of the freezer is dark and cold. Bacteria, algae, and chemicals are all slowed down by the dark and cold. I would expect the water to last forever in the freezer.
"Your real problems are more likely to be algae rather than bacteria. . . "
Not to worry. If you make your water safe from bacteria and viruses, the algae will be killed too.
There are always trade-offs with any treatment process. You can kill biologics but make carcinogens; remove carcinogens and residuals but risk reinfection; make water that is safe in and of itself but tha will react with its container to draw in pollutants. Most people would be surprised at the (usually harmless) bugs that live deep in the ground too. Making good water is almost as much art as it is science.
And then there is my dog. He will pretty much drink anything with no more than the occasional burp.
Scott
Not to worry. If you make your water safe from bacteria and viruses, the algae will be killed too.
There are always trade-offs with any treatment process. You can kill biologics but make carcinogens; remove carcinogens and residuals but risk reinfection; make water that is safe in and of itself but tha will react with its container to draw in pollutants. Most people would be surprised at the (usually harmless) bugs that live deep in the ground too. Making good water is almost as much art as it is science.
And then there is my dog. He will pretty much drink anything with no more than the occasional burp.
Scott
You can make a pretty good cistern out of concrete if you know how to make waterproof concrete. I work with a lot of small municipal reservoirs where no treatment is used. Many have never had a problem in decades of continuous use. There is a greater risk if the water just sits there, but I don't think you'd be asking for a problem by building a cistern. Just make sure nothing can seep in, like untreated rainwater, and that no insects have access. The norm is to use non-corrodible #24 mesh for vents, etc.
Those things can get pretty heavy pretty fast, so you have to watch the foundation and slope failure. It is best to bury them at least partially.
Scott
Those things can get pretty heavy pretty fast, so you have to watch the foundation and slope failure. It is best to bury them at least partially.
Scott
- Joined
- Apr 27, 1999
- Messages
- 6,117
Dear Terry, Your company newsletter is just spreading another one of those internet/urban legends. Every kind of chemical process I can think of (including leaching and diffusion) slow down dramatically with reduced temperature. Freezing turns water into a solid so that only very slow diffusion can take place through it. While boiling a vegetable oil in a non-microwave-safe container might cause dangerous leaching, freezing water won't.
Here is an article debunking the urban legend from John Hopkins:
http://www.jhsph.edu/Press_Room/articles/Halden_dioxins.html
Here is an article debunking the urban legend from John Hopkins:
http://www.jhsph.edu/Press_Room/articles/Halden_dioxins.html
You shouldn't completely discount contamination from synthetics into water. Not all plastic is created equally, and some things, like sulfides, can do strange things with water pipe plastic. And some people are abnormally sensitive to the "harmless" things that come out of plastics, frozen or not. Put a gallon of gas in the freezer for 6 months and see how much of that food you want to eat.
But no, I am not trying to defend the dioxin thing. Bummer that legitimate "Chicken Littleing" gets maligned by such falsehoods.
Scott
But no, I am not trying to defend the dioxin thing. Bummer that legitimate "Chicken Littleing" gets maligned by such falsehoods.
Scott
- Joined
- Apr 27, 1999
- Messages
- 6,117
Scott, I'm not sure what you mean by put a gallon of gas in the freezer for six months. Is this inside a plastic container? Did you mean in a metal gas can? Did you mean to pour it in? I assume that you were making a rather casual joke, but did you realize what a bomb you'd be making? The flash point of gasoline is -40 degrees (that funny temperature where F=C temperatures). Gasoline vapors in a freezer would be explosive and would tend to pool densely. One spark and bye bye freezer.
"Scott, I'm not sure what you mean by put a gallon of gas in the freezer for six months. . . ."
Jeff,
I meant that diffusion, etc. does not stop at 273 Kelvin (the freezing point of water, AKA 0 degrees C). There is quite a lot of chemistry that goes on at temperatures lower than the freezing point of water.
Have you worked out the vapor pressures and concentrations at equillibrium for gasoline in the freezer? I'm not sure if you'd get to the point of being able to destroy a freezer. It is an interesting problem. I'll see if I can't take a stab at calculating the concentrations and possible energy release/volume change. Perhaps this will be the next weapon of trendy assassins.
"While boiling a vegetable oil in a non-microwave-safe container might cause dangerous leaching, freezing water won't. . . ."
I thought you weren't worried about things in the freezer
Scott
Jeff,
I meant that diffusion, etc. does not stop at 273 Kelvin (the freezing point of water, AKA 0 degrees C). There is quite a lot of chemistry that goes on at temperatures lower than the freezing point of water.
Have you worked out the vapor pressures and concentrations at equillibrium for gasoline in the freezer? I'm not sure if you'd get to the point of being able to destroy a freezer. It is an interesting problem. I'll see if I can't take a stab at calculating the concentrations and possible energy release/volume change. Perhaps this will be the next weapon of trendy assassins.
"While boiling a vegetable oil in a non-microwave-safe container might cause dangerous leaching, freezing water won't. . . ."
I thought you weren't worried about things in the freezer
Scott
I was thinking of having a reserve of store bought bottled water to keep at home in a cool dark place ( closet) . Wanted suggestions how often I should rotate the stock? I would assume that the store bought sealed water would be easier to do than trying to keep a water jug sealed and sterile. No can do with the cistern, I live in Hawaii.
balrog said:
I keep about 20 gallons in storage and I'm not worried about it. What I use are those old stainless steel soda kegs. I fill them up with water and keep around 15 lbs of CO2 on top of it. You have to watch the CO2 pressure for awhile because it dissolves into the water, but after awhile the water becomes saturated and will not dissolve anymore. When CO2 dissolves into water it creates carbonic acid which further protects your water. The only downside is that you end up with fizzy water, but who will care about that if it's the only clean drinking water around. As long as you keep >10 lbs of pressure in the keg, you don't have to worry about contamination.
The last time our water main broke and we had to boil our water, I used a beer keg with the top cut out and my propane turkey fryer. I had 10 gallons of boiled drinking water in no time!