Shipping Auto Knives

H

howardaw

Joined
Oct 20, 2003
Messages
9
Hello folks,

I posted a MT mini-socom elite on ebay, which promptly sold, and it occured to me that shipping autos might have laws attached to it. So here are my questions:

1. Can I ship an auto-knife from GA to CA (person to person)?
2. If not, can I have my FFL ship it (to another person)?
3. If not, can I have my FFL ship it to his FFL?
4. Out of curiosity, can this item even be owned in CA?

Note, he says it is for a gift for a friend in AZ, so he would only be in "possession" of it for a little while, so ownership is more of a curiosity question...it's the shipping that is more important to me.

Thanks...

Howard
 
Shipping or transporting autos across state lines is a Federal Felony. California has additional laws. The only exceptions are if the knife is being shipped to a manufacturer or authorized distributer. Shipping to an FFL won't work, because the dealer would be guilty of distributing restricted goods.

In CA, carrying, transporting, selling, buying, transfering etc switchblades (and balisongs) above 2" in blade length is illegal. That's why on ebay you see everyone saying that the blade length is less than 2" or 5cm, and many won't sell to California (ebay is based in CA). "Ownership" is OK, since the laws don't prohibit simple ownership...but pretty much any way to get ahold of an auto (above 2") is illegal.

Despite all of that, the chances of any trouble with the law if you mail an auto to someone are pretty much nil, unless you pack it in a torn paper bag and masking tape and the knife falls out in transit.
 
Thanks for the reply...so who can ship autos (not counting CA). If a person goes to tadgear.com and orders an auto-knife to ship to GA (just an example)...is that legal and if so, why?

Howard
 
Planterz said:
In CA, carrying, transporting, selling, buying, transfering etc switchblades (and balisongs) above 2" in blade length is illegal. "Ownership" is OK, since the laws don't prohibit simple ownership...but pretty much any way to get ahold of an auto (above 2") is illegal.
Click to expand...

That's almost but not quite what Bernard Levine has posted on his site. According to the California code as quoted by him, buying autos over two inches is not illegal:

Public Code 12020 updated 5/4/03

653k. Every person who possesses in the passenger's
or driver's area of any motor vehicle in any public
place or place open to the public, carries upon his
or her person, and every person who sells, offers
for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or
gives to any other person a switchblade knife having
a blade two or more inches in length is guilty of a
misdemeanor.
For the purposes of this section, "switchblade
knife" means a knife having the appearance of a
pocketknife and includes a spring-blade knife,
snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other similar
type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or
more inches in length and which can be released
automatically by a flick of a button, pressure on
the handle, flip of the wrist or other mechanical
device, or is released by the weight of the blade
or by any type of mechanism whatsoever.

http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/ca.txt

[Please see my remarks below]

Bill D.
 
Duh, I knew that (I've posted it many times myself). You can buy all you want, but since selling/transfering/shipping/etc is illegal, it's difficult to buy them. :footinmou
 
So, I'm still confused on who can ship to whom?

person to person??
person to FFL??
FFL to person??
FFL to FFL??

Exemptions for LE?

I needs to know, thanks...

Howard
 
Does anyone other than me wonder at the common sense of someone who posts something like this in a public forum? Look, anyone can read these posts and I have no doubt that there are law enforcement officers who are interested in this sort of post, so put yourself at risk by posting in this way?
 
Well, considering that I'm asking if it is legal and haven't done it yet...I don't think it's too stupid. I want to know what it is legal to do, not verifying something after the fact.

Howard
 
I thought my original reply was clear enough, but let me try more.

Interstate transportation or shipping of automatic knives to unauthorized invididuals is a federal felony. For a vendor/manufacturer to legally send an individual an auto, they need proof of either active military service or Law Enforcement (not all LEOs are allowed autos though; this depends on the state they're in, which may prohibit even LEOs from having autos, plus department authorization). An individual can send an auto to an authorized vendor or manufacturer, but without proper credentials, not the other way around.

This does not apply to intrastate commerce (within a state). In AZ, autos are legal, so I can, for example, buy an auto made in Phoenix and have it sent down to Tucson. However, even between states where autos are legal, transfers to unauthorized individuals is illegal. For example, I cannot legally ship an auto from AZ to a friend in Oregon, even though both states allow ownership and carry of automatic knives. I cannot drive across the AZ/CA border with a 2" switchblade, depsite the fact that it's perfectly legal in each state. Go figure.

Shipping to or from an FFL will not work in your case. The state you're sending it too must allow automatic knives to be sold to individuals. Otherwise, the FFL would be commiting a federal felony by giving the knife to whomever you sold it. The person the FFL would be doing the transfer for must be allowed to have the knife (active military, LEO, or in a state that allows sale to civilians).
 
Thanks, Planterz, for your clear and useful explanation.

Earlier, I wrote:

Tsme said:
That's almost but not quite what Bernard Levine has posted on his site. According to the California code as quoted by him, buying autos over two inches is not illegal:

Public Code 12020 updated 5/4/03 [snip]
Click to expand...

I need to amend what I wrote about California knife law, because I did a little more digging and I think my statement above is wrong. Here's why:

California Penal Code Section 31

"31. All persons concerned in the commission of a crime, whether it
be felony or misdemeanor, and whether they directly commit the act
constituting the offense, or aid and abet in its commission, or, not
being present, have advised and encouraged its commission, and all
persons counseling, advising, or encouraging children under the age
of fourteen years, lunatics or idiots, to commit any crime, or who,
by fraud, contrivance, or force, occasion the drunkenness of another
for the purpose of causing him to commit any crime, or who, by
threats, menaces, command, or coercion, compel another to commit any
crime, are principals in any crime so committed." [emphasis added]

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=30-33

I'm not a lawyer, but it looks like this means that if that someone sells you a switchblade illegally in California, then since you aided and abetted their commission of that act then you are also a principal in the commission of that crime and therefore just as guilty. In other words, don't do it. Guess I'd better add a disclaimer and add that this is not legal advice and it's worth what you're paying for it. :D

You can tell this is a pretty old section of law by the talk about lunatics and idiots. :D

Bill D.
 
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