Shipping Autos

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feathers73

Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
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If a retail knife company sells autos on the internet and you live in a state that does not prohibit autos, can they legally ship it to you?
 
In the interpetation of the law, the Commerce Dept has allowed Law Enrocement to fall under the term "Armed Forces" which is mostly considered only the military, and if you read the Postal Law ( scroll down) then you will see the Post Office allows for mailing to these other law enforcement agenices, which influcened how the law is applied). The issue with written law is you must also follow up on case law ( that which the courts have stated on record is their view of how the law is applied) and Agency policy on how the law is applied. If you follow these things closely, you will remember that a few years back Customs was going to ban the import of assisted openers because they felt they were switchblades, and they could have done that with in their policies. There was a tag along amendment to a law that changed the wording to exclude them other wise they would have had the implied power to ban them until a court told them otherwise. Things are not always clear cut, but what is clear, is that they are totally illegal to be shipped to retail customers accross state lines and the buyer could be viewed to have commited a consiracy to commit a crime by placing the order ( I say that because so many think only the seller is breaking the law), and if you use the USPS then both sender and addressee are guilty per their statue.

As to how retailers get them accross state lines, well they do so by stating they will follow the Federal guidelines as to who will get them ( Armed Forces and LEOs). They then follow local laws ( some times that is), and since the Federal Law is rarely enforced, or they do not realise they are breaking it, they sell their wares with in state. On line sellers have come up with forms they may ask their customers to fill out in an attempt to show a good faith effort on their part to sell only to military and LEOs. but this is not allowed for in the law or case law, and has only value as a defense in court once the seller has been so charged. In short, all of the knives sold to the general public that cross a state line after being made, are contra ban. All the imported models are pure contra ban on both Customs and Interstate Commerce regs. The thing few are willing to ackownledge is that those who sell them are criminals ( remember if you commit a crime you are a criminal, getting caught and convicted only makes it a public record and allows for lawful punishment).....
 
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OhShoot said:
Where do you see law enforcement agencies mentioned in the US code?

Begs the question, however: how indeed do retailers legally GET the knives? Hand carried from the factories?

- OS
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Tom's answer is pretty much spot on about how the retailers get them.

As to retailers selling/shipping to buyers, I get the impression that a lot of it is "don't ask, don't tell".

I asked a major seller of autos about the question of selling/shipping to non-military/leo at Blade this year and he said their lawyers had looked into it and they were not concerned about it.

I also talked to Protech at Blade. They enforce the military/leo requirements when selling directly to the consumer, but for warranty work they require no military/leo proof if you live in a state that permits ownership of autos.
 
Alan interesting how a lawyer says he is not concerned with the law...perhaps it is like your car mechanic telling you that little noise in your engine is nothing to worry about knowing he will have a major repair down the road.....It is the law, and yes it is only enforced now and then, but it is enforced and the Postal Inspectors go after this stuff right away when discovered.....Just to add, can you imagine the field day they would have at Blade with all the sellers crossing state lines and the Italian/German/Asian importers there!!! Don't be surprised when or if that day comes....Remember fines are a part of it and the government is looking for $$$$$$ now....
 
tom19176 said:
In the interpetation of the law, the Commerce Dept has allowed Law Enrocement to fall under the term "Armed Forces" which is mostly considered only the military, and if you read the Postal Law ( scroll down) then you will see the Post Office allows for mailing to these other law enforcement agenices, which influcened how the law is applied). The issue with written law is you must also follow up on case law...
Click to expand...

Excellent and comprehensive explanation ... appreciate it.

- OS
 
tom19176 said:
Alan interesting how a lawyer says he is not concerned with the law...perhaps it is like your car mechanic telling you that little noise in your engine is nothing to worry about knowing he will have a major repair down the road."
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I don't think it's that they were not concerned with the law, but felt confident in dealing with it in court.

I did have a mechanic once whose take on little noises was "wait till it falls off, then fix it". :D

....It is the law, and yes it is only enforced now and then, but it is enforced and the Postal Inspectors go after this stuff right away when discovered
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I don't disagree. Which is why we are probably better off not dicussing it.
Or discuss it with a legislator and get the law(s) repealed.
One reason I joined Knife Rights at Blade this year.

.....Just to add, can you imagine the field day they would have at Blade with all the sellers crossing state lines and the Italian/German/Asian importers there!!! Don't be surprised when or if that day comes....
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I was going to mention that in my other post, but decided not too....don't ask, don't tell, yanno.;)
It would certainly seem to violate the law as I read it.....but I'm no lawyer.
It's possible the loophole is that it is legal to own swithblades in Georgia. With our revised CCW law, it may even be legal to carry them.

Remember fines are a part of it and the government is looking for $$$$$$ now....
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Hush, don't be given them ideas. :eek:
 
Alan, I believe we agree on most items. As a former NYC LEO that dealt alot with the US Attn Office, I can tell you that while killing time waiting, I discussed the law concerning knives with many of them including Rudy when he was a federal DA. There is NO exception from the Federal Law that is not listed above. The fact that some states allow for them to be owned or possessed with in that state does not set aside the enforcement of the Federal Law. Consider the same condition that presently exist with some states allowing the medical use of pot, but the Federal law does not allow for it. The NJ Governor was in the papers just a few weeks back as he was uncomfortable allowing the State Of NJ to allow for the use of it when the felt there was still a fedral issue ( he too is a former Federal DA).

The federal law is not often enforced but it is there folks and to pretend it is not just makes no sense to any law abiding person.....
 
Seems like a risky proposition. I fortunately live in a state where they are not illegal (which is different than being legal). thanks for the help.
 
Some states you can own an auto in a collection but can not carry one on you. Better just to always check where you live.
 
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