Shipping Knives Based on Local Laws?

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Hannibal24

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Apr 15, 2014
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I'm looking for some guidance from those of you who have more experience in selling and shipping knives to different locations around the US. I often see a stipulation that a particular seller will not ship to NY state, or that the buyer -- by purchasing the knife -- is agreeing that he/she is 18 years of age and that the knife is legal according to their local laws.

I had a paramilitary 2 posted for sale elsewhere, and the buyer wanted me to ship the knife to Oakland, CA, where local ordinances define any knife with a 3"+ blade as a "dangerous weapon." Now, certain acceptable reasons for carrying such a knife are stipulated, but I just didn't feel comfortable shipping the knife to a location where it would be defined as a "dangerous weapon" (even if I personally disagree with blade length restrictions) so I canceled the sale, which only led to harassment and insults from the buyer. So, I think I made the right choice given the attitude of the buyer, but I'm wondering if others have thoughts on my decision. And, can the seller/shipper be held accountable for shipping a knife to a location where it is illegal?
 
If I may be blunt, no you did not make the right decision.

As a seller your only legal obligation is to not violate restrictions on sale. For example, if the knife was a switchblade and you shipped it to another state you would violate federal law. Or if the area you are selling to prohibits sale of the item to minors. But that is where your obligation ends.

It would be forgivable if you would not sell to a location where mere possession even in the home is illegal. And not selling to people under 18 is usually a reasonable restriction because of civil liability (and if they are using a parent's credit card, the transaction may be without the parent's consent).

But denying sale based on carry restrictions is unnecessary and frankly excessive. Whether the person carries it is none of your business nor your responsibility, and furthermore you are presuming you have even interpreted the law correctly. While possession prohibitions are very clear, carry laws are complex and the majority of people get them completely wrong. You need only read this sub-forum to see this illustrated.

NOTE: The common restrictions seem on many knife-selling websites about not selling to NY or MA are largely baseless, legally speaking. A product of ignorance and rumor rather than professional legal advice. Folders are not illegal to possess in any state.
 
glistam said:
If I may be blunt, no you did not make the right decision.

As a seller your only legal obligation is to not violate restrictions on sale. For example, if the knife was a switchblade and you shipped it to another state you would violate federal law. Or if the area you are selling to prohibits sale of the item to minors. But that is where your obligation ends.

It would be forgivable if you would not sell to a location where mere possession even in the home is illegal. And not selling to people under 18 is usually a reasonable restriction because of civil liability (and if they are using a parent's credit card, the transaction may be without the parent's consent).

But denying sale based on carry restrictions is unnecessary and frankly excessive. Whether the person carries it is none of your business nor your responsibility, and furthermore you are presuming you have even interpreted the law correctly. While possession prohibitions are very clear, carry laws are complex and the majority of people get them completely wrong. You need only read this sub-forum to see this illustrated.

NOTE: The common restrictions seem on many knife-selling websites about not selling to NY or MA are largely baseless, legally speaking. A product of ignorance and rumor rather than professional legal advice. Folders are not illegal to possess in any state.
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Thank you, glistam, for your bluntness and input. I hope you can at least forgive me for trying to be cautious and to do the right thing, even if I made the wrong decision in this case. I certainly see your point(s). Actually, I made the decision precisely because I DIDN'T trust myself to interpret the local ordinance correctly. I saw that the knife was defined as a "dangerous weapon" (very clearly, no question there) in Oakland, CA, and I wanted to err on the side of caution. I don't like the definition/restriction, but that is beside the point.

Here is the official ordinance site for Oakland and, specifically, the ordinances related to "weapons": https://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=16308

After defining "any knife having a blade three inches or more in length" as a "dangerous weapon," it then indicates that a person cannot have a "dangerous weapon" in his/her possession. Even though it doesn't indicate it specifically, I'm assuming that "in public" is implied? In other words, you can possess any knife you want inside your house, but you can only possess it on your person "in public" if doing so for work purposes or for lawful recreational use?
 
I have to agree with glistam
im my opinion, its up to the buyer to know there own laws, and not your business or responsibility.
 
I will admit that is a very badly worded statute for using the phrase "to have in his or her possession or under his or her control". Normally such language would imply even mere ownership in the home to be illegal. However, this being the true meaning borders on impossible, as this would apply to all knives kept within the home including those used for cooking or even spreading butter, all of which are over 3". Clearly this is not how the law is enforced or the entire population of Oakland would be in prison. I could be mistaken but I believe municipal codes like this are only enforceable in public places. In any case even if taken at face value it still would not be your problem because your not breaking any laws by sending it; the buyer would be breaking the law by having it within his or her city.
 
jayjaytuner said:
I have to agree with glistam
im my opinion, its up to the buyer to know there own laws, and not your business or responsibility.
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Thanks jayjaytuner, I want that to be the answer as well, and maybe it is. I just want to better understand what the law says about my responsibility as a seller.

I appreciate your response, as well as glistam's timely and helpful response.
 
You were overly cautious, that's fine. Outside of NYC, I don't know of any jurisdiction going after anyone for shipping knives into anywhere. Of course, they NYPD also sent detectives to Arizona and spent $100k showing how they could buy guns without a NICS check...nothing about shipping them to NYC, just so Bloomberg could say they did.

I find it rather amusing that Oakland has a length limit, I'm sure their gangbangers are really in fear of that one...it's a misdemeanor so it won't even get them a strike on the off chance they got charged and convicted of violating it (much like carrying a handgun is also a misdemeanor in California). Oakland...it's like Detroit with better weather.
 
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