Shoot out near Titanic II.

Bill Martino

Bill Martino

Joined
Mar 5, 1999
Messages
34,096
Little action down the street last night. Those who visited Titanic II will know exactly where it took place. On Moana just around the corner east about 1/4 block, north side of street.

Cop pulls DUI suspect over. Ammo in the truck. Pat down search. When officer hits auto weapon tucked in belt guy grabs the gun and starts shooting. About 20 shots exchanged at close range. Cop takes 3 hits that go thru the arm. DUI suspect takes hit in shoulder that breaks shoulder and puts him down.


Bottom line: Cop in hospital doing well. No surgery required. DUI suspect facing attempted murder of police officer and resisting arrest with deadly weapon.

Advice to cop: Spend a little more time on the firing range. 10 shots to get a shoulder at 10 feet doesn't cut it.

Advice to DUI suspect: Now you know why it's a felony to carry a loaded gun if you're drunk -- you stupid ba$tard.
 
It pays to be aware of your surroundings, expect the unexpected. Hard lessons learned the the Bar, I leased for 10 years.

Be aware , Bill

I agree, he needs more practice, but not necessarily range practice, but controlling his actions under stress.

What do I know, only been there a few times.
 
Should go back to issuing S&W model 10 or Ruger GP100 to anyone that doesn't make expert ( 90 % ). A cop who can't shoot 90% with either hand doesn't have any business with another more complicated gun. ( I shot distinguished master on PPC with 2&1/2" model 19 DAO because of bobbed hammer and with magnum full charge 125 jhp's. That's why my 2&1/2" needs tightening. )

The cops that don't learn the value of the six rounds in the cylinger won't be slinging another II to 14 ( 9mm Glock w/+2 magazines holds 19 plus the round in the chamber ) more shots loose anywhere in the vicinity. Til he reloads at least.

A model 19 with 4 inch barrel or the 66, or the Ruger equivalent can be modified from the factory stocks to other better fitting stocks, rubber or wood. And if the wood stocks don't fit you darned well you can buy a couple pair of wood grips and modify them to fit. My Cobra, 3" Chiefs', and Bodyguard all wear such stocks fitted to my hand. Furthermore, once sighted in at twenty-five yards you car raise the front sight above the rear leaf until you hit on at 100 yards and mark the appropriate groove and fill with paint.

Let someone who shoots Expert choose his own gun, whatever it is. And let him carry it in the holster of his choice. Even if it is an old Askins or Jordan Border Patrol holster instead of one of the newest retainable gadgetry.

H*ll, if you want, pass out the autos but mandate 8 or 10 round clips, issue auto only, and standard holster unless the cop shoots expert. Once he shoots expert let him carry what he wants, from revolver to 19+1 Glock. Bet once word gets out the folks carrying revolvers don't have nearly as many firefights as those with autos.

PS: during the convention I had my carry weapon, but left it in the truck as it wasn't legal to carry in the casino, and I certainly wouldn't bring it into Uncle Bill's place without the courtesy of informing him. I did have it in the motel room, as I didn't know the owners were Bill's friends til I told him about taking an hour to find it in the dark.
 
After a trip to the range, I never had any trouble getting the Sheriff to let me carry what ever I wanted. 1911 or Mod. 29. If I can't get hold of a 1911 again I won't feel under gunned with that wheel gun.:)
 
My hat's off to any good guy who's faced and returned fire at spitting distance. I'm glad this one is alive and got the "stupid ba$tard".
Regards,
Greg
 
Pappy, the 4" 29 is more than I can handle. I had to drop down to full charge .41 mag 210 grain loads. The web of my hand would be bleeding when I left the line, but I'd qualify 90% and above. I'm 5'4", size 8 shoes and gloves. The kick of the 44 would "shock" me and I'd take a second or two to recover my composure. The 41's were a few ounces heavier, and with practice I ignored the kick, barely, and kept shooting. Now, I don't even care to shoot the 3/4 loads.

LCS37 got it right. The guy needs to make friends with fear and live through it on the range over and over until it's mastered. Then again, he took 3 hits before prevailing. We don't know if it was his strong or week arm that got hit, and coming from 3 hits behind is something else altogether.

That don't change the fact that too many shots get fired with too few hits for the number fired compared to the revolver days. You gotta get the first hit, you gotta make it a good hit. Like the guy said, you can't miss fast enough to catch up.

A man with a 357 and the guts to do it can take out 6 men without reloading. That's the bottom line.

Of course a man who's got the confidence to pull his khuk instead of his pistol is a whole lot of difference above and beyond.
 
I'll say Amen to all of that Rusty. I like the big heavy slugs. I used to load a 255 grain in the .44's and 260's in the peacemaker when I was a lot younger. Too much moving around and lost most of the reloading gear. I'm not sure at this age whether it is worth gathering the stuff up again.:)
 
It seems that our officer could use some quality time in a FATs simulator. ( No Bruise it isn't a machine that makes you look fat:p )
I agree with you Rusty about not giving sorry shots more bullets to miss with. The bottomless pit 0' bullets weapons truly inspire poor marksmanship. They also inspire false confidence. This IS dangerous.

In my days as "The Fuzz" I shot "Top Gun" in my academy class (Got the trophy to prove it:D ) In two rounds of qualification my average was 95.8%. I know I could have done better, but the weather conditions were bitterly cold & wet. I did like the conditions because it allowed me to see how I could do with numb fingers in less than ideal weather.

I wish that the PD would allow us to carry whatever we wanted. It would have been my Sig 226, but I was tied to a beat to death Smith 5906 9mm. I had to file the front sight to square it up after its previous owner dropped it on the asphalt and flattened it. This thing failed to extract 4 times in 50 rounds of qualification. The classic double feed jam. The inability to get rounds downrange always affected my score. I never got above 89% with it. It really Pi$$ed me off. I went round and round with my Major about 1) getting another weapon that functioned 2) getting mine serviced, or 3) letting me carry my own weapon. He finally took it to have it serviced and they replaced the ejector! Sorry, guys, the extractor might need replacing since it would leave brass in the chamber! UGH!

To make a point with my major, I shot the standard Georgia Double action pistol course with my Smith model 60 snub nose .38--92% and 100% with my Sig 226 for off duty.

sorry about the aforementioned rant.

In my experience, I think that standard qualification courses with static targets at known distances and time allowances, isn't the best training for real world use of force encounters. How bout qualifying at night, in a kill house with the officer and perp using simunition?
If you train how you are going to fight, then when under stress, you WILL fight how you've trained.

My tastes run along the 1911 lines (Like big bullets, too=Big holes=quicker hydrolic loss) with the Colt commander being the normal hip rider.

-Craig
 
my 2 cents; the 4" 44 is not an efficient machine, actually losing the power game in factory ammo to the 41 in a 4". Rusty, I like heavy bullets, particularly in handguns. The 265 or 300 gr weight settles the 44 down. The 44 is a great cartridge with heavy bullets. I never liked the 240's. Too much whip for me.

Recoil is a personal matter. There are small people who can shoot large African rifles well, but handguns may be more dependent upon the size of the hand for toleration.

...
I wonder if the drunk had priors. I don't know any drunks who would pull their guns and start shooting, even if they were stupid enough to have them on them in the first place.

munk
 
Then he wasn't just a drunk. He was an idiot before he ever took a drink. Kinda makes me wonder how he made it this far.



munk
 
Trains and tests small department LEOs for qualification. (One of three jobs he holds.)

HE is the one who repairs the equipment in his off-hours. He is the one who used to spend all his time trying to create a more realistic situation for testing/training. He is the one who spends his own time and money to go to additional training courses out of state.

He is the one...who was told: "Just Qualify them...most officers don't use their weapons. These townships have drunks, not criminals."

He thinks it is insane....but political.
 
"Maybe I need some guns"

BowlingForRhinos_color_small.jpg

...Bruise, I think we would all feel a lot safer if you took up bowling for rhinos instead :D
 
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