Shotgun experts- advice requested

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Jul 22, 2010
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I'm looking at getting my first O/U shotgun. I've got a pump and a semi-auto (both in 12 gauge) but I'm craving a 20 gauge O/U. Right now my two prime candidates are the Beretta Silver Pigeon I and the Browning Citori. Anyone have pros or cons for either? Anything else in this price range or lower that I should be seriously considering?
 
Professionally speaking, the Beretta may be purddy, but the company is a dick to work with. Or we've just had really poor luck with reps and we just happen to speak with the wrong people at Beretta who lie to us....constantly.

Could maybe look into the Franchi Renaissance, not super high end but pretty nice for the price.

Every now and then you can find an Weatherby Orion for about that price, made by SKB, nice quality, but if you ever need parts it's kind of a bear to get. But, you could get a SKB and the current models are supported for warranty.

Ruger is coming out with the Red Label again, they basically....cheapened it....from the original. That being said, I'd say hold off on that one for a bit just in case there are bugs in it.

For the amount the Beretta is going for, you can probably find a nice used Superposed, but just be sure it's not a salt wood one, or if it is, just not a bad case and has been sealed properly.
 
Thanks Mark, What are your thoughts on the Franchi Instinct? I'd certainly rather not spend Beretta money I just want something that's going to somewhat hold it's value and go bang everytime I pull the trigger. I did look at the new Red Labels but they are only making them in 12 gauge right now, at least according to the Ruger website. I'd love to find a clean used Superposed but those seem to be few and far between, at least around here. I'll look at the Weatherby too. Thanks again.
 
I prefer the Beretta but the Browning is good as well. I do not have much experience with the Browning and from what I can tell both shotguns are about in par. I would however look at CZ USA shotguns as they would be my choice.
 
Browning is my choice. I have shot them all, and the Browning seems more robust to me. The Berettas are pretty, but Browning has so many more choices Citori, Synergy, etc....
 
Professionally speaking, the Beretta may be purddy, but the company is a dick to work with. Or we've just had really poor luck with reps and we just happen to speak with the wrong people at Beretta who lie to us....constantly.

Could maybe look into the Franchi Renaissance, not super high end but pretty nice for the price.

Every now and then you can find an Weatherby Orion for about that price, made by SKB, nice quality, but if you ever need parts it's kind of a bear to get. But, you could get a SKB and the current models are supported for warranty.

Ruger is coming out with the Red Label again, they basically....cheapened it....from the original. That being said, I'd say hold off on that one for a bit just in case there are bugs in it.

For the amount the Beretta is going for, you can probably find a nice used Superposed, but just be sure it's not a salt wood one, or if it is, just not a bad case and has been sealed properly.

Beretta owns Franchi.

I was up in the air between a Beretta Silver Pigeon and a Franchi when I bought mine. I chose the Beretta, but I was pretty impressed by the Franchi and they cost a lot less.

The receiver on a Beretta is noticeably slimmer than the one on the Citori. The Citori's are made in Japan which is another reason I liked the Beretta better. When people ask what Citori means, the joke at Browning used to be that it was Japanese for "Number one shotgun".

Superposed IS a nice gun, but they are heavy if you are thinking of upland hunting with it. If I was going to buy a superposed, I'd be looking for a Belgian made one (I think Browning stopped mfr there in the early 70's), and they are quite valuable from what I understand...

Cool Beretta "fact" -they are the oldest manufacturer (of anything) in the entire world- at over 500 years old. Several Olympians shoot Beretta too!

Of course I'm not biased in any way though :D
 
Now days I head for the CZ Redhead if I'm after a field gun. Now that Ruger pulled there head out I agree with Mark and would like one but waiting until the bugs are worked out, which given there history that shouldn't be a long process. If I'm trying to make a statement I guess I would go with Beretta, BUT that ain't me, against my grain, so I'm just an old field Hog!!! Frankly, still prefer the pump.
 
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What you want to be warned about regarding all or most Browning O/Us is that they have a recoil-reset trigger. Stupidest idea I've ever come across; if gun doesn't fire first time (ie misfire or empty chamber) then the GD thing won't fire the second barrel either, unless you smack the butt of the gun on the ground. If you're a hunter or inclined to have one for self-protection you certainly don't need that kind of aggravation.
Lots of folks use Berettas up this way although none of them are cheap. Ruger Red Labels had problems for years with upper barrel firing pins hanging up due to wear.
This is not a purchase recommendation, for you, but I'm still a huge fan of vintage Remington 3200s due to their super fast locktime (1.5 milliseconds). Many of these guns are now thoroughly 'bagged' and a complete rebuild (one of the very few affordable guns that can be entirely rebuilt) is gonna set you back at least a G note. And upgrading to screw-in chokes is prohibitive due to the original thin wall barrel construction. But they were 'made in USA".
 
I have a Browning Citori in 12 and a Beretta White Onyx in 20.
I have to add, the Browning has never misfired!
I would recommend either. They are both excellent O/U's.
I do have to say the 20 gauge has spoiled me for Trap or Sporting Clays. More than enough and easier on the body.
 
The only O/U I have ever owned was a Ruger Red Label so I don't have much to offer in the way of help to your question but I have recently been thinking about getting another O/U so I am curious as well to see what everyone else thinks.

Garth
 
Winchester 101....Old Skool.....however if the opportunity arises I would be all over the Weatherby Orion...I think the new 101's are coming out of the FN/Belgian factory Since the purchase by Browning....??
 
Thanks Mark, What are your thoughts on the Franchi Instinct?

I was half awake when I posted that, I meant to say Instinct instead of Renaissance. too many damn guns in the brain.

Overall I like them. Price is attractive, the weight isn't bad, fit and finish are nice. Only had issues out of one, the guy claimed it light striked. That being said, I think it was shooter induced cause he wasn't.......super...gun........knowledgeable. Type of guy that would call a barrel a receiver, you know? I don't have use for an O/U shotgun, but for what I'd use it for, a Franchi or a CZ would be on my list, maybe a Superposed just because I like old guns with character.

Beretta owns Franchi.

And Beretta is also affiliated with Benelli, what's your point? I do a lot of business with Benelli, and so has my shop for years. There's a reason we finally washed out hands of Beretta and basically told them to piss off. Benelli is a wet dream to work with, they may be a little off with their projected backorder list, like the ATF bum phuck H20 and the M3 Three Gun, but overall, they're a dream to work with. Beretta couldn't care less unless you're ordering a 100K+ shotgun, and even then they still probably suck to deal with as a company.

Colt has been around for a long time too, hell I received a 100th Anniversary 1911 the other day, had 3 grip screws instead of 4 :rolleyes:

Superposed, in my mind in a 20 gauge, isn't heavy. But that's just me. Weight depends on the shooter.

CZ, even if Turkish made, seem fairly solid. Only have had an issue out of one. Center bead wasn't drilled center and the choke tubes weren't threaded and depthed right from the factory. Sucked big time too, from the factory, came with an AMAZING stock, when it came back with the barrels right, the stock had been switched with a 2x4

Sh@t happens a lot in the gun world
 
I have owned Ruger Red Label 12, Browning Citori 12, CZ Canvasback 20, and a Browning Citori 20. I still have the Browning Citori 12 (for Sporting Clays) and the CZ Canvasback 20 (Sporting Clays, Skeet, Upland hunting). I did as much research as I could when I bought the CZ. It was very hard to find a Browning Citori 20 gauge for under $1300 and I wanted a field gun so I bought the CZ instead. I used it for years and it never let me down. A couple of years ago I broke down and bought a Citori 20 sight unseen because you just can't find them here in my area. Unlike the Citori 12 which is beefy, the wrist and stock of the 20 were smaller and seemed more fragile than my CZ. I couldn't bring myself to use it unless the weather was perfect in the field and how often does that happen? Also when you break the Citori 20 open without firing it seemed hard to get the shells out (not so with the 12) So I sold the Citori 20. I have nothing but good things to say about the CZ Canvasback. I have two uncles that bought one after they shot mine and none of us have had any problems. Never did like the Ruger Red Label after I handled a Citori.

Also lots of stocks don't fit me for wingshooting (including the a Rem 870 ) so shoot an example before you buy if you can. Or at least shoot one that has almost the same stock measurements. That's another reason why I bought the CZ, if memory serves it was real close to the Browning 12 in stock dimensions.
 
I was half awake when I posted that, I meant to say Instinct instead of Renaissance. too many damn guns in the brain.

Overall I like them. Price is attractive, the weight isn't bad, fit and finish are nice. Only had issues out of one, the guy claimed it light striked. That being said, I think it was shooter induced cause he wasn't.......super...gun........knowledgeable. Type of guy that would call a barrel a receiver, you know? I don't have use for an O/U shotgun, but for what I'd use it for, a Franchi or a CZ would be on my list, maybe a Superposed just because I like old guns with character.



And Beretta is also affiliated with Benelli, what's your point? I do a lot of business with Benelli, and so has my shop for years. There's a reason we finally washed out hands of Beretta and basically told them to piss off. Benelli is a wet dream to work with, they may be a little off with their projected backorder list, like the ATF bum phuck H20 and the M3 Three Gun, but overall, they're a dream to work with. Beretta couldn't care less unless you're ordering a 100K+ shotgun, and even then they still probably suck to deal with as a company.

Colt has been around for a long time too, hell I received a 100th Anniversary 1911 the other day, had 3 grip screws instead of 4 :rolleyes:

Superposed, in my mind in a 20 gauge, isn't heavy. But that's just me. Weight depends on the shooter.

CZ, even if Turkish made, seem fairly solid. Only have had an issue out of one. Center bead wasn't drilled center and the choke tubes weren't threaded and depthed right from the factory. Sucked big time too, from the factory, came with an AMAZING stock, when it came back with the barrels right, the stock had been switched with a 2x4

Sh@t happens a lot in the gun world

The point is, you're singing the praises of one company while bashing another, despite the fact that they share the same ownership. That's like saying Lincoln is a crap company, but Ford is awesome :rolleyes:

Beretta isn't "affiliated" with Benelli or Franchi- they OWN them, along with Stoeger, Sako and Tikka. A company doesn't stay in business for (literally) 500 years by offering nothing but crappy service. I question how much of an issue dealing with CS even is for the average person and how often it's really needed? When you need service, you simply take the gun to the dealer and let them handle the warranty issue for you. Service is a major reason for buying local anyways right? Especially when talking about spending that kind of $$! My Beretta dealer told me that if I ever have any trouble with the gun to bring it to him and they would take care of getting it serviced- after 7 years, 1000's of rounds, and 100's of hours hunting in all types of weather the gun has never needed a repair. If warranty repairs are a pain for the dealer, frankly that isn't the gun owners problem.

Again, the Superposed is an excellent gun, but all guns start to seem heavy after being carried upland bird hunting for 6-7 hours. For Upland Hunting I want a gun as light as possible so I can hunt longer! For waterfowling and target shooting I want one as heavy as possible to soak up recoil so I can shoot longer. If you're prepared to carry the weight of a 20 gauge Superposed upland hunting, why wouldn't you just get a modern 12 gauge instead that's cheaper, weighs the same and has more power? :confused:
 
What is your max price point and what are you looking to do with it? I have a older Weatherby Athena IV 28ga, it is an awesome gun, and I would highly recommend it if you can find one with 28" barrels and screw in chokes. I have a Perazzi MX8, and the Weatherby has amazing fit, finish and balance. I have an older Beretta and they are great guns, although I would steer clear of the newer ones with cheap looking machine engraving. The older Onyx models are great, especially if you can find one of the Orvis editions with the upgraded wood. Rizinni's are great as well, and you can pick up TR20's on GB for good prices.

Look at trapshooters.com on the trading post and check out GB...buying a new Beretta or Browning is not maximizing your budget IMO, you can get a lot more gun if you buy pre-owned. Let's face it, none of us are going to shoot a shotgun to a point of failure...meaning tens of thousands of rounds,
 
Thanks for all the responses guys. I think i might have found the solution but won't know until tomorrow. I'll post more when I have more info.
 
I shoot Perazzi for competitive trap and 12 and 20 gauge Parker Reproduction side by sides for upland hunting. The only gun I regret selling was a Browning Over/Under Super light in 20 gauge. Older 10 ' model...no alloys...All steel. Straight grip stock and around 6 pounds. I killed more quail with that gun than all the others combined.
 
The point is, you're singing the praises of one company while bashing another, despite the fact that they share the same ownership. That's like saying Lincoln is a crap company, but Ford is awesome :rolleyes:

Beretta isn't "affiliated" with Benelli or Franchi- they OWN them, along with Stoeger, Sako and Tikka. A company doesn't stay in business for (literally) 500 years by offering nothing but crappy service. I question how much of an issue dealing with CS even is for the average person and how often it's really needed? When you need service, you simply take the gun to the dealer and let them handle the warranty issue for you. Service is a major reason for buying local anyways right? Especially when talking about spending that kind of $$! My Beretta dealer told me that if I ever have any trouble with the gun to bring it to him and they would take care of getting it serviced- after 7 years, 1000's of rounds, and 100's of hours hunting in all types of weather the gun has never needed a repair. If warranty repairs are a pain for the dealer, frankly that isn't the gun owners problem.

Again, the Superposed is an excellent gun, but all guns start to seem heavy after being carried upland bird hunting for 6-7 hours. For Upland Hunting I want a gun as light as possible so I can hunt longer! For waterfowling and target shooting I want one as heavy as possible to soak up recoil so I can shoot longer. If you're prepared to carry the weight of a 20 gauge Superposed upland hunting, why wouldn't you just get a modern 12 gauge instead that's cheaper, weighs the same and has more power? :confused:

The point is....I work for a retailer and I'm not paid on commission and I have to fix a lot of companies F ups. I have no problems calling out a company. Just because they own the company, doesn't change the fact that Benelli runs smooth and Beretta runs like a bunch of asshats. You know why they've propbably lasted so long? Prestige. Pride. Like owning a Holland and Holland, a Purdy, Peazzi. Beretta....it's prestige. Plus, I'll admit they make a pretty shotgun, but so does Blazer.

And it's not the warranty I have an issue with, it's the communication I have between a retailer and Beretta themselves. We had a $4,000 shotgun pre sold to a customer just for a hunt he had, we gave Beretta 4 months heads up. They told us "yeah, no problem, you'll have it in a week". Couple weeks pass, nothing, they told us it's in the country awaiting shipping, don't worry. Call again, over 2 months in advance, different person at Beretta, again, don't worry, you'll have it soon. More jerking us around, it gets to 3 days before the hunt, we call again and spoke to someone honest or didn't care. They told us that they haven't had one in the USA in months and it would be months until they had one again. Same crap, different customer and story. Same stuff happened with rifles and shotguns over the years. That being said, my Benelli rep and old Beretta rep, have always been different.

As for the Superposed, why do some people still trap shoot of hunt with a Model 12, or an Auto 5? History, appreciation of a design, legacy, prestige. It's not about weight all the time
 
I have had a bunch of shotguns over the years and i have landed on Mossberg and Star Baikal as my favorites, I have shot more than 10000 clay's with my Baikal OU and it still shoots like new.
 
As things sometimes happen fate fell into my lap yesterday. I was talking shotguns with a friend of mine at work when another friend overheard our conversation. He asked me what I was looking for and I told him a 20 gauge O/U. He smiled and said that he might be able to help. He had a Huglu 20 gauge O/U that he had bought in Turkey in 2002. He had shot a couple of rounds of skeet with it then put it in his safe. It had sat there unfired ever since. He sold it to me for the same price he paid for it back in 2002. The gun looks immaculate. Still has all the chokes and some nice engraving/inlay without being too over the top. I'll get some pictures as soon as I find myself at home while the sun is up. If it shoots half as nice as it looks I think I'll be happy with it for a long time.

Thanks again to everyone for all the great advice.
 
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