Should a Knife Hold Up Under Batoning?

C

Confederate

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I've seen batonning used in many knife tests, but aside from the tests and the raw strength of the knife being tested, is batoning something that fixed blade knives and folders should be able to do under survival conditions? In other words, are knives commonly used to split wood or is it something they're used for when something else simply isn't available?

I recall someone here batonning a Cold Steel Recon Scout and having it break in cold weather. And it seems someone (perhaps the same person) said he broke a Recon Tanto. The Recon Tanto looks to be a very strong knife, and Carbon V has proven to be a strong steel, so either the design of that particular knife was off or the heat treatment, or the tempature was too cold for the steel to absorb a lot of energy. The photos I saw showed the break was in the narrow section of the tang, just after it entered the handle, just where one would expect to see a break.

But it surprises me how many folding knives are being batoned in tests. It seems to be unrealistic to expect a folder to be able to pass this kind of brutal treatment, but if it passes, I'd say that would be a stunning display of its strength. I can't imagine knives made in the 1800s being able to stand up to it. A hatchet is obviously a much better choice.

Where did knife batoning come from? And what are some of the folders that have passed such tests?

Thanks.
 
Batoning a folder is abuse !!! Look up "froe" .The broken CS I would assume had a heat treat problem. Batoning a fixed blade is ok if you do it right -to split the wood along the grain and to strike the blade in that same direction.
 
This

http://www.barkriverknives.com/docs/batoning.pdf

is a very nice article on batonning.

You may have hit the nail on the head Confederate, a narrow tang and bad batonning technique are going to break a knife.

You can get away with either a bad tang or bad technique, but not both. In fact I have heard you can baton with a folder if done carefull and on small wood.

Full tang and good technique...you should be able to baton.
 
marcinek said:
This

http://www.barkriverknives.com/docs/batoning.pdf

is a very nice article on batonning.

You may have hit the nail on the head Confederate, a narrow tang and bad batonning technique are going to break a knife.

You can get away with either a bad tang or bad technique, but not both. In fact I have heard you can baton with a folder if done carefull and on small wood.

Full tang and good technique...you should be able to baton.
Click to expand...

I was looking for that article and you beat me to it!

But as long as you take a stoout folder and baton it when it is unlocked it should do fine. For example I have batonned with my SOG Trident using this technique and had no noticable effect.

I've used a larger Opinel with no damge either.

Basically as long as you don't stress the lock most folders should hold up fine.

That said I only use folders for that purpose when I'm messing artound with new techniques or when I don't have a FB on me.
 
Yes a fixed blade should hold up to batoning. This is my main use in the woods
chopping and batoning with my fixed blades. I have never had a fixed blade or my 15 dollar CS kukri machete break on me during batoning. I know some people have.

I just completed a field test using a Mora clipper. I batoned smaller logs with it just fine with no damage to the knife or handle.

I don't have any experience batoning with folders But on some of the heavy hard use folders such and the Extrema RAO I would expect it to be able to do some batoing without damage.
 
Hi noss4,

What is the advantage of using a knife for splitting wood vs. a hatchet? I've used hatchets for years. They always seemed like the right tool for the job. I get the feeling a knife that will be good at splitting wood would be pretty big and heavy.

Thanks,
Rich
 
I think hatchets would be ideal over a knife. Fixed blades should be able to handle batoning if used properly. Batoning a folder is more than likely abuse. But if you had to, I've read that keeping the folder unlocked and batoning at the right part of the spine should work out fine.
 
I don't see why you can't baton with a good folder. In fact, keeping it unlocked and batoning with it seems "safer" than batoning with a fixed blade and holding down on the handles, (which is poor technique as documented on the BRKT site).
 
Kaizen1 said:
I think hatchets would be ideal over a knife. Fixed blades should be able to handle batoning if used properly. Batoning a folder is more than likely abuse. But if you had to, I've read that keeping the folder unlocked and batoning at the right part of the spine should work out fine.
Click to expand...

Thats an interesting idea. I've never heard that before.
 
Rich357: I find a knife easier for splitting than an hatchet. On a knife say a 9" blade. It will go across the entire length of a log say 5 inches and it is driven in using a baton. A hatchet just usually sticks in unless you swing very hard and have good aim and can hit it in the center every time or unless you drive it in with a baton or bang the log against something.

If a hatchet works for you then this is fine. I just prefer to do this job with a large knife. And I usually only carry a large knife in the field and not a hatchet. The bigger knives are more effective splitters then a small one. But they can work fine also on smaller wood.

I find a large knife or a machete more versatile in the woods then a hatchet alone.
 
I think the idea with a knife capable batoning is to have one tool that can do everything.
 
noss4 said:
Rich357: I find a knife easier for splitting than an hatchet. On a knife say a 9" blade. It will go across the entire length of a log say 5 inches and it is driven in using a baton. A hatchet just usually sticks in unless you swing very hard and have good aim and can hit it in the center every time or unless you drive it in with a baton or bang the log against something.

If a hatchet works for you then this is fine. I just prefer to do this job with a large knife. And I usually only carry a large knife in the field and not a hatchet. The bigger knives are more effective splitters then a small one. But they can work fine also on smaller wood.

I find a large knife or a machete more versatile in the woods then a hatchet alone.
Click to expand...

Thanks, noss4. I'll have to try splittng a log with my Busse BM. So far I've only done a little minor limb chopping with it. I keep thinking if big knives are so much better for splitting logs I would see more of them in hardware stores.
 
No, a knife shouldn't, because there are many kinds of knives. Some are very small, thin and designed for delicate cuts, and wouldn't stand batoning - yet they are still knives, and can be excellent for their intended purpose. Hard use fixed blades? Sure, those should stand up to batoning, and more. But delicate, thin cutter fixed blades or small folding knives? Of course not. Now, in an ideal world, any tool could be used for anything and it would still be reliable, but then again, this is the real world and not an ideal one.
 
steelnut said:
I think the idea with a knife capable batoning is to have one tool that can do everything.
Click to expand...

I'm sure your right. I'm just not good with the idea that an "all around tool" is going to be as efficient as tools designed for certain tasks. When I'm having to deal with stiff brush, a light weight clipper cuts the brush a lot easier than trying to cut the brush with my knife.
 
Rich357 said:
I'm sure your right. I'm just not good with the idea that an "all around tool" is going to be as efficient as tools designed for certain tasks. When I'm having to deal with stiff brush, a light weight clipper cuts the brush a lot easier than trying to cut the brush with my knife.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct. An axe may be the better dedicated wood splitter, but you cant fillet a trout with it.

The tradeoff then is how much you want to carry.
 
No, not every knife, nor even every fixed blade should be able to handle batoning. It depends on the design of the knife and it's intended purposes. I don't consider any folder appropriate for batoning, though some can withstand it if you're careful.

That said, I've batoned griptilian in small wood for starting a fire while camping one frozen november morning.


One advantage batoning has over a hatchet and field axe is safety. You're much less likely to have a disastrous injury. This is something to consider if you're in the field alone.


Phil
 
I really don't see using my Busse BM for filleting a trout. I guess it could be done but why restrict myself to one knife to do everything? OTOH, I've seen some of those axe guys shaving with their axe. Maybe an axe could fillet a trout?

I'm not arguing for carrying more weight into the woods, just taking more tools that are better designed to do certain tasks.

I don't see myself carrying my Busse BM on my belt. It would go in my day (or two) pack. As long as I'm going to have the pack with me I may as well put a few tools in my pack than just one big knife.
 
phatch said:
No, not every knife, nor even every fixed blade should be able to handle batoning. It depends on the design of the knife and it's intended purposes. I don't consider any folder appropriate for batoning, though some can withstand it if you're careful.

That said, I've batoned griptilian in small wood for starting a fire while camping one frozen november morning.


One advantage batoning has over a hatchet and field axe is safety. You're much less likely to have a disastrous injury. This is something to consider if you're in the field alone.


Phil
Click to expand...

I guess I baton my hatchet. When I'm splitting a relatively short log that's maybe 5 inches in diameter, I don't expect to go all the way through it in one giant chop. Sometimes I pick up the hatchet with the wood that's stuck to it, and slam the whole thing down once or twice to split the wood.

I would think swinging something with a long sharp edge would also have it's risks.
 
Rich357: Give it a try. Experiment. If you don't like batoning with your knives then you always have your hatchet.
 
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