Should all fighting knives have a guard/hilt?

MatthewVanitas

MatthewVanitas

Go Army, Beat Navy!
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I might be overthinking this, but here goes.


If a knife could possibly be used for fighting, should it have a guard or hilt to prevent the wielder's fingers from riding up on the blade during a jab?


I look at knives like the Pukko, and am baffled. I know a military knife is probably 95% utility and 5% fighting material, but a guard still seems a good idea. The Finnish Army certainly doesn't lack any experience is rough stuff, but why not put a guard onto the traditional pukko? EDIT: Likewise the Mora. I know that they're more work knives than fighting knives, but I'm sure a Finn or two has taken out a brace of Russians over the last century.

Likewise, when I look at a lot of the "tactical" fixed blades, most don't seem to have much provision for preventing hand-slide. I'm sure the grips are nice and grippy, but why not put a small guard on?

If my plans to work overseas pan out, I'm looking to get a Spyderco Street Beat as a utility/emergency knife, partly because the deep notch in the grip seems like it's enough to serve as a guard to keep the hand from sliding on to the blade. Not that I plan to do any hi-speed ninja stuff, but if I ever have to poke anything, I'd like to keep my fingers.

I'm not claiming that I know better than a knife designer, just asking what it is that I'm not comprehending about preventing the hand from sliding onto the blade on stab/jab.
 
Yup. Single edge, single guard. Double edge, double guard.
To see why, practice thrusting into a piece of pine w/full intent (like you really mean it), and see what happens. (Careful!)
 
Puukkos aren't fighting knives. They're woodworking & multipurpose knives. They're not designed for killing people. But if you really need to kill someone with a puukko, you can do it. Just hold on tightly to the handle, and pick the right grip for the job - fortify your grip with a finger on the butt of the knife handle, when practical. As for knife duels, puukkos certainly weren't designed for that, either, although they were occasionally used for that purpose. I've done hard stabs and thrusts with a puukko, and have never hurt myself in so doing. The smart way to kill someone with a puukko is to do it from behind, and you don't need any guards for that.

But of course, if you mean to use your knife for dueling, which is, by the way, a good recipe for a slow and painful death, get something with large guards and blade catchers.

Puukkos do not have guards because they get in the way of precise work and choke-up grips, make the knife more complicated and heavier and uglier. But sure, some Finns use blades that have guards on them, although most prefer very small guards, like that on the M.95 Sissipuukko (unofficial Finnish Army Ranger Knife).
 
Troop said:
Yup. Single edge, single guard. Double edge, double guard.
To see why, practice thrusting into a piece of pine w/full intent (like you really mean it), and see what happens. (Careful!)
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I say that even a single edged knife with an unsharpened clip calls for some kind of double guard.
 
jdm61 said:
I say that even a single edged knife with an unsharpened clip calls for some kind of double guard.
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A single edge can get away with the Kasper or subhilt type grip with a single guard.
A double guard won't hurt but can get in the way at times.
 
You don't always need a guard, depending on your technique. Some shorter blades are meant to to suuprted with your palm on thrusts and if you use a reverse grip, again you may not want a guard.
I have a puuko from KP that certainly is a fighter. Sharpest damn knife...got the scar to prove it. But it doesn't need a guard, I was just sloppy.OK, really stupid.
Personally, I do like a guard, and a subhilt can give more leverage too.
 
Good grip strength is what keeps the blade from moving around in your hand. clench a fist round the handle and keep it there !!! a hilt is of course of advantage, but get your grip good and solid then a hilt is "insurance" if you like.
I agree you should try stabbing into something like a plank of wood or a phone book to get used to how the shock of impact interfears with your grip. stabbing wood is also a good way to snap the tip off a blade so make sure and pull the blade out the way it went in. easier said then done at full speed with a good dose of violence !
 
For fighting knife? In a word: yes. The need for a guard in common day to day use is debatable, but in the unlikely scenario of a knife fight or a knife used in defense, sustain any kind of injury to your knife hand and your odds of survival plummet. It's not worth the risk IMO. Technique is great but Murphy is Murphy and I know from experience he doesn't like me. A single is good and a double can be used a a sub-hilt if necessary (edge-up saber grip).
 
i want my fighting knife to have a guard,definitly
i don't understand why the crkt hissatsu doesn't have one as its a fighting knife
 
I know I'm gonna sound contrary again . . .

The guard descends from large knife and sword design and is intended to protect the users hand from harm by the opponents blade. Check out the huge ornamental baskets on foils and rapiers.

Heavy combat blades - max four pounds at 36" - are usually simpler, due to the hack and slash of more brute combat.

In small combat knife use guards protect the hand from some of the protrusions inherent in armor, and help prevent loss of the weapon from injury. Any warrior worth his salt practicing daily in sparring and edged combat has the hand strength and skill to rarely lose his grip and allow fingers to slide onto the blade. If you're striking something so hard that it can be a problem, you have the wrong target. Exposed "chinks" in the armor of an opponent, whether physical or in technique, are soft targets and largely lethal. If they were all hard, you'd use a war hammer or axe - which some do.
 
Don't need a finger guard if there are deep choils or finger cut-outs along the handle. But what's to prevent an accidental cut once the hand looses surface contact from the handles of an unguarded blade? There have been guardless fighters made in order for the knives to be retrived quickly without being hung-up from the insides of garments. But coming down to it, such a distinct choice of going with a guard or guardless would be a personal thing.
 
A big-city cop said he never saw a criminal who carried his gun in a holster, and never saw a stabber who didn't slice his own hand to the bone. ss.
 
Thrusting knives and swords with no guard at all have been used in various times and places throughout the history of the world.
 
Katanas have guards not to stop swords but to prevent the users hand from sliding down on to the edge. I think a fighter should have a guard unless it was designed in such a way as to not need one like the Fred Perrin Bowies.
You can see how the integral guard makes an add on one unnecessary.
 
much depends on the handle shape and material. many japanese knives were done in the aikuchi style, which meant they had no guard. the handles were typically waisted or trumpeted, and they normally were wrapped in rayskin. the hissatsu is patterned after an aikuchi in the osoraku-zukuri style. the romans used a double edged dagger called a pugio which also had no guard. kukris? i haven't seen many with guards. i don't think guards on knives are necessary, as long as it has a good handle.
 
John Ek had models 1 and 2 without guards. I have a new model 1 and the walnut handle with it checking stays in my hand even after piece of pine with grease hands. It was a similar test John did to win approval for his knives.
 
Cougar Allen said:
Thrusting knives and swords with no guard at all have been used in various times and places throughout the history of the world.
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Absolutely, demonstrably true. I've seen both pictures and artifacts (in museums).

I suspect the swords involved were meant to be used with sweeping, slicing moves.

Possibly the thrusting knives were intended for use with one hand on the butt? Unsure...knives/swords as weapons really aren't my thing.

I can certainly 'see' myself doing considerable damage -- to myself! -- without a guard.

Perhaps someone with more knowledge or experience will come along and comment.
 
Cougar Allen said:
Thrusting knives and swords with no guard at all have been used in various times and places throughout the history of the world.
Click to expand...

Yuppers sure has...BUt as it has been said by OP, they were prolly designed more as a slasher then a sticker

unsub

Zatoichi's Katana DOESNT have a quard and look how well he does?? 35 years and STILL kickin!!

Lovely looking knife bro!


For me?? Double guards get in the way....Gimme a single guard and all is well
 
Plenty of great fighting knives with no hilt. I own several. However, IMO, those with no hilt should have a contoured grip so that there are indentations for the fingers, especially the index. At the vary least, the lower, rear part of the blade can act as a partial hilt. Handle material should have good friction material such as G-10. Also, knives that are held in an ice-pick grip using thumb capping do not need a hilt.

Regards
 
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