Should I buy a commander?

callahwj · Jun 19, 2001

Hi guys. I've heard some mixed reviews about the commander, but the design seems great, so I was wondering if you guys could answer a few questions about the knife:

About the lock: I've never been a huge fan of the liner lock, but when it's executed well, it can be great. How have the locks held up on your commanders? Also, I've heard that some people consider the liner too thin and that there have been bending problems. Is their truth to this? Basically, has the lock on your commander stood up to hard use?
How does it do on spine whack tests?

QC issues: I see lots of things posted on the forums about emerson having bad QC, especialy in the area of screws being stripped and blades not being centered. How have your experiences been?

Warranty: Is it true that emerson is more tollerant than other companies about ELUs tinkering with their knives? I've heard this hinted at, and if it's true it would be a refreshing change from some other companies.

Customer service: How have your experiences with emerson CS been?

I appreciate any answers, opinions or endorsements. I love the design of this knife, the wave is brilliant, and I like recurved blades. I hope nothing in this post is construed as trolling and I don't want any of my concerns about what I've heard to offend people, but I feel the need to ask before I drop this kind of money on a knife. One more question real quick: what other emerson knives have the wave besides the comander and the sark? I've heard the CQC-7 does, and it's featured on the BF homepage, but I haven't seen a waved version for sale anywhere.

thanks for your time,
Bill Callahan

------------------
William Callahan

"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without
hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd
never expect it."
-Jack Handey

I'm one of those wierdos who likes Zytel.

Don Rearic · Jun 19, 2001

Bill,

I don't think there are too many people missing fingers in here. I happen to like the simplicity of the Liner Lock, I would rather trust that than a spring in some Modern Contraption.

As far as a "Spine Whack Test," with all due respect to A.T. Barr, anyone that takes a new knife and starts beating the damned thing on the edge of a table deserves what they get when they weaken their knife and then it closes on them.

Think about it, what in the hell are you duplicating in the real world? When are you EVER going to whack the spine of a knife on something hard and shock that knife in that manner?

Even in defensive use, when is that going to happen?

Even if you have the knife in reverse grip and you hook someone's limb and move it out of the way, someone's arm or leg is not the edge of a wooden table...it is flesh. So, I guess you should use the palm of your hand as the testing surface for the Spine Whack, that would have more to do with reality than abusing the knife by smacking it on the edge of a table.

I can think of absolutely NOTHING that I have ever done with a folding knife of any kind that would be duplicated by that stupid test. Nothing...

Think about it, if you do this test on your folders, and then one day, the lock does fail, YOU might have caused the failure by damaging the knife by doing something it was never intended to do, like smacking the spine on something hard.

When folding knives are hammers, and the spine is the face of the hammer, that test will have some merit.

Material being cut across the edge reinforces the lock, as for a thrust, I think they will hold up just fine, much stronger than a lock back which can jump, etc.

My Emersons are holding up just fine.

------------------
Usual Suspect
Ipsa scientia potestas est aut disce aut discede
Some of my Knives and other neat things

malazo · Jun 19, 2001

You might find this thread helpful. It addresses EKI knives in general, but there are many comments particularly about the commander.

As for me- great knife, no complaints. Use it and abuse it, and use it some more.

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/001614.html

DrRMJ · Jun 19, 2001

The Emerson Commander is a great tactical folder. Why? Because of the recurve blade design, handle ergonomics, and the Wave. As far as the liner lock is concerned, a thin liner (thin compared to what?) doesn't mean that a lock will necessarily fail. Moreover it is the way the lock is formed and cut as to the tang. I agree with Don as to the spine whack test. Beating on the spine is going to damage most liner locks. The stop pin may become loose and blade play may be induced that may not necessarily result in a failed lock. Of course a liner lock knife that can stand up to the spine whack test is going to be strong, but I've had knives with thick liners fail the test. The design and geometry of the lock is more important. Also, I think that a good way to evaluate the lock is to sqeeze the knife in your hand and determine if the lock disengages. Another method to test a knife is to see that if, by moving the blade up and down in the open position, if there is blade play or if it unlocks the lock.

Back to the Commander. The Wave rocks. For the fastest blade deployment, nothing compares (except for the CQC7 Waved, SARK, or SOCFK!)

KillerMan · Jun 19, 2001

YES.

(What more is there to say?)

Eric Blair · Jun 19, 2001

Spine whack test; I've said it once, and I'll say it again - If you're trying to cut things with the false-edge of your Commander, then I hope that it closes and you lose a finger or two, and this is the ONLY instance in which a Spine-whack test will tell you anything at all. Stupid people should not jeopardize themselves or those around them by owning ANY kind of sharp instrument. Don, your spine-whack commentary is right on the money. Spine-whack makes NO sense. None.
Bill, get yourself a Commander. They're awesome. I use mine daily, and I use it hard. It has never once even considered failing me. Mine slices open hundreds of bales of hay per month, slices hundreds of feedsacks, cuts twine, whistles through rope, saws through thick hide and cardboard and wood and.......Get one. I use mine for utility, but I carry it for defense. And it will not let me down. I wave it open HARD 12-20 times per day, and have done so for the past 8 months. Has the linerlock EVER become at all questionable? Nope. Rock solid.
Join the club; get a Commander and never look back.

------------------
Eric - Usual Suspect
"The best toys are the ones that you can put an eye out with."

ROSANGHAL · Jun 19, 2001

Come to the dark side callawj!!!

Come and don't look back HA HA HA HA HA

Get one you won't be disappointed. WAIT! You will be disappointed! You'll be disappointed you only have one. Believe me on this one

Ross T.

laserman 1 · Jun 19, 2001

Bill,
I own a "few" Emersons,and believe me I haven't had a problem, My own $.02 is go for it.

------------------
JimBob

John Hollister · Jun 19, 2001

callahwj

Welcome

Quote callahwj:
How have the locks held up on your commanders?

Good question. I don't think there is any thing as hard on a lock system as the wave. Think about it. Some people freak if you "Rambo" open their folder. "The Wave" slams the knife open.

I have waved open my Commanders untold thousands of times since I first started carrying them in '98. Never have I had a problem.

Yes, they hold up.

Quote callahwj:
Also, I've heard that some people consider the liner too thin

Weeeell, when the Commander was introduced in '98, it did have thicker liners and thicker scales. In mid '99 EKI revamped the design and one of the changes was to make the liners slightly thinner. Some among us (truthfully myself included) would prefer if they went back to the original formula (I hated "New Coke" too).

I mentioned recently that I was hunting a custom folder at the Blade Show that I had my eye on for a couple of years. I picked up three folders by this maker and immediately put them back down and walked away. The liners were freakin' tin foil. And I might add if you actually look around a production liner locks, many of them look like shim stock.

While I have not done a formal study, I'd be willing to bet that the EKI line are at, or above average in the liner thickness department.

Quote callahwj:
and that there have been bending problems

Never once have I heard of anyone having "bending problems".

Jonas did manage to "spine whack" a Commander to the point that the liner bent, but did not fail. Not the brightest thing he ever did I'll bet.

EKI fixed it.

Quote callahwj:
How does it do on spine whack tests?

My feeling of the whole "Spine Whack" thing are along the same lines as everyone elses here, but let's not mistake that as a sign that EKI's knives do poorly at such nonsense. They hold their own.

Kinda reminds me of the "Glock Tests" that were done back in the Eighties in an attempt to discredit the pistols. Freeze them, Heat them, Bury them in sand and mud, Throw them from roof tops and Helicopters, ect, ect. What exactly were these tests meant to replicate? (For the record, I was young and dumb when I did those things. I know better now)

Quote callahwj:
I see lots of things posted on the forums about emerson having bad QC, especialy in the area of screws being stripped

I think your thinking of the Benchmade version of the CQC7B. They tapped the screws into the G10 and the fist time you went to tighten a screw, it stripped out. EKI taps the screws into the Titanium to eliminate that issue.

Quote callahwj:
blades not being centered

Just so you know this is no gloss job, yeah, some have come with off center blades. Guilty

I hesitate to bring the makers name up as they have taken enough black eyes, but their reputation for quality knives is second to none (well arguably, maybe one

). However, of the last six knives I have purchased from then, two have been slightly off center. Not to the point that they hit the side of the body, but if your looking for faults, yeh it was there. Again, what's the point?

Quote callahwj:
How have your experiences been?

EXCELLENT

Quote callahwj:
Is it true that emerson is more tolerant than other companies about ELUs tinkering with their knives?

EKI does not "recommend" that the end users disassemble their knives anywhere I can find, however if you look at their guarantee, it does not mention it voiding the guarantee either. They do not rivet, loctite, torks screws, Hex screws, blind pins or any other cute production trick to keep end users from working on their knives.

The company actually believes that these knives are life saving tools. As such, they may need field adjustment or detailed cleaning. You can accomplish this with a Swiss Army Knife or Leatherman.

However, "Tinkering" may void your warranty.

Quote callahwj:
How have your experiences with emerson CS been?

I've yet to have to utilize EKIs CS. However, I hear from others that have that their experience was positive.

Quote callahwj:
but I feel the need to ask before I drop this kind of money on a knife.

Absolutely. Very wise of you.

Quote callahwj:
what other emerson knives have the wave besides the comander and the sark?

The production waved models are:

Commander
SARK
PSARK (a pointed version of the blunt tipped SARK)
SOCFK
Waved CQC7B

Quote callahwj:
but I haven't seen a waved version for sale anywhere.

Their out there, but people are just hangin on to the damn things.

Quote callahwj:
Should I buy a commander?

Yes

hth

John

jdcw · Jun 20, 2001

NO! Do not buy a commander!
Buy a couple of them, and get the trainer too
to avoid those strange mishaps that have left
funny looking scars on my arms.

Dmitry · Jun 20, 2001

I've hesitated buying Commander too (especially after reading some negative posts on lock and overall quality) but I've bought Commander and it is outstanding knife with quality for a match. I'm fully satisfied with it. Buy it and then look for P-SARK

2Sharp · Jun 20, 2001

Originally posted by John Hollister:
Jonas did manage to "spine whack" a Commander to the point that the liner bent, but did not fail. Not the brightest thing he ever did I'll bet. EKI fixed it.

Right on the spot, not my finest moment

but, it give me a good confidence of the reliability of the Commanders linerlock.

And i really didn't bend it, i deformed it

which means that i spinewacked the crap out of it.
EKI fixed it and it's as good as new

------------------
Be well!/Jonas aka 2Sharp

"Who want fulfillment? -denial lasts forever"
Usual Suspect-got the t-shirt to prove it...
Things that goes boom? look here: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Camp/8373/index.html
My knives!

Ken Cook · Jun 20, 2001

PLEASE don't buy a Commander!
You'd be far better off spending the 169.00 to buy 63 three dollar Chinese made Spyderco Knockoffs! Haven't you ever noticed that NO ONE ever goes into the General forum and complains about the lockup of these EXCELLENT Chicom (er, I mean Chinese) knives!

Just THINK about it! A collection of 63 knives for the price of ONE piddlin' ol' Commander. I don't see how you could pass that up!

Ignore all these other Usual Suspects. Haven't you ever wondered WHY they're Usual Suspects? Hmmmm? VERY shady buncha characters if you ask me!

(Pay no attention to the "Usual Suspect" thingy in my sig line.)

Okay, okay, I'll 'fess up.

I have an Eveel plan. If I join in with the trash talkers who LOVE to snipe at the Commander, I figure eventually EKI will discontinue the knife from lack of interest and I'll be able to buy ALL of them for pennies on the dollar, and they'll be MINE! ALL OF THEM MINE! MINE DO YOU HEAR ME???? MINE,MINE,MINE!!!!!!!
BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh, that was a little over the top wasn't it?
Uhm, never mind.

YES! Buy a Commander, you'll love it. I've got two and won't part with either of them.

------------------
Desenfundeme no sin la razón, envaineme no sin honor
Usual Suspect
MOLON LABE!

John Hollister · Jun 20, 2001

Quote Ken:
Ignore all these other Usual Suspects. Haven't you ever wondered WHY they're Usual Suspects? Hmmmm? VERY shady buncha characters if you ask me!

True, true

Quote Ken:
I've got two

Me too.