Should I go "up" or "down"?

D

Dave Fulton

Joined
Feb 11, 1999
Messages
568
I'm considering changing my current daily carry (old style Endura 50/50)and I'm considering both the Native and Calypso Jr. lightweights. I have a few questions though.

1.) What are advantages of tip-up vs. tip-down?

2.) Would anyone who owns/has owned both, or Sal, care to comment on them comparatively speaking?

3.) Is the Native's "top swedge" sharpened?

4.) Any recommendations for other models to consider (for lightweights w/3" blades)?

TIA.

Dave
 
Well, FWIW:

1) I used to think tip up was best. But tip down allows for deeper carry and quicker deployment. Also, if the Native you get loosens at the pivot with use, then the nifty textured spine could catch and cause the blade to open slightly when deployed (ie. before you may want it to). This has happened to me a couple of times. As long as you are aware of it, you should be OK.

2. Comparitively speaking. Both have great steels. I personally like the VG-10 on the Calypso, Jr. Ltwt. Wickedly sharp out of the box. The Native, with CPM 440V is also sharp, and for me easy to sharpen. As far as grip goes, the Native is rather limited because of the deep finger placements. I like the more versatile Calypso, Jr. grip myself - offers more variety. For more comparisons, see here:
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum52/HTML/000528.html

Also, you can do a search (see the top of the page) for Calypso, Jr and Native in the subject. Look here and in the Spyderco Archive. Lots of good info here. And knowledgeable and helpful folk.

3) The Native's swedge is not sharpened, nor do I recommend you do so. This probably would make the knife illegal to carry.

4) No other recommendations. These are both super knives. But YMMV.

Good luck in your choice. Let us know which you go with (or both as often happens!).

Dean


------------------
"All is well. And all will be well - in the garden." Chance the Gardener
 
David,

I have the Native and the Calypso Jr with the Micarta. I thought the Calypso lightweight was too light.

Generally I prefer tip down, especially on the larger knives as I find it hard to reach the hole/stud with my small hand. The Native is small enough that you can reach or almost reach the hole on extraction. The beauty of the hole near the top (tip down) is that you can almost immediately pinch the hole, extract and do a handle drop opening. I can do the drop handle opening with the micarta calypso but find it hard to do with the lightweight version.

FWIW,

sing
AKTI #A000356
 
Dave,
You'll find a ton of threads on just this question. If I recall what I've read in the past, Sal prefers tip down (as do I) but said a majority of ELU's prefer tip up. This is why most of the newer Spyders are tip up, but the ones Sal actually designs (e.g. Military) are still tip down. I find I end up twirling a tip up knife around a couple of times as it comes out of my pocket trying to get the right grip to open it, while the tip down models just clip open. This is the only thing that's kept me from buying the Mouse knife that I'm dying to have. On that note, if anybody knows if it can be switched please speak up.
 
I have and use both tip up and tip down and pleased with both.

My preference is for tip up for smaller folders where ia can reach to hole easily from that position. The Native is perfect for tip up as my thumb is right on the hole when the knife comes out of my pocket.

When the knife gets a little biger, and I can no longer reach the the hole with my initial grasp I prefer tip down carry.

Tip up was a little confusing at first, until my automatic refexes figured out that the knife was upside down. Now it seems just as natural as tip down.


Mike
 
I prefer tip-up carry if...


1. The blade is large enough (Endura) to be shaken open sans thumb hole. Because I can't easily reach the thumb hole anyway in this position, and the shake-open deployment can be performed very quickly;

and...

2. There is spring pressure holding the blade closed (lock back or Axis Lock, for example).

Otherwise I prefer tip down carry.

David Rock

------------------
AKTI Member # A000846
Stop when you get to bone.
 
I definitely was not planning on sharpening the Native's swedge, for just that reason. I haven't had the chance to see a Native in person though, and the pics had me wondering. I'm also looking at the Delica since it seems to fit the parameters as well.

Any more thoughts?

TIA.

Dave.
 
Up or down - as long as you are happy! Contentment : is a warm spydie in your pocket!
biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif


------------------
have spydies
will travel...
 
Ok..thats a difficult question. The world seems evenly divided..Andy Stanford, Mike Janich and some other fellow instructors I know and respect, love tip up. They "index" by reaching their thumb into the pocket & index fingering the clip.They draw the knife up Out of the pocket, in their hand, thumb on the hole...the hand and knife move as one..
Personally I cannot do this.It feels incredibly awkward. I Prefer tip down and I "index" by putting my thumb and index finger on the top exposed section of the knife and draw it up into my hand which which puts my thumb into the hole...the knife is following my motion INTO my hand.
OK I admit it..I HATE tip up...thats why my GUNTING is designed tip down.I personally find its a much faster draw...
Mikes new tape from PALADIN-Fighting Folders says the opposite.go figure!...Oh well...
Gee looking for a three inch or less carry..the GUNTING is less then three inches..and you don't need the hole to open it..LOL!

[This message has been edited by BRAM (edited 08-11-2000).]
 
Hope your hand is better now.

I have been carrying the new zytel delica and endura for abt a month now. Both are tip up.

The delica handle has a longer curve under the edge than the endura for your first two fingers/or first one finger. When I hold the delica, I put my first two fingers on this curve, but with the endura, I put only my index finger on this curve, because there's not enough space. I thus hold the endura closer to the butt, which is OK for a hammer grip for rough movements, but for finer work I will choke up on the handle to put my thumb on the back of the hump.

Both the new zytel delica and endura can be carried right or left, but only tip up. I don't mind tip up because I usually carry the knives clipped to my side pockets with vertical seams. Tip down may be better in jeans-style front horizontal pockets,etc.

When I pull the knife from my pocket, I don't try to get my thumb in the hole immediately. I think this is adding excess motion. I put my index finger on the tip of the clip, my middle finger on the side of the clip, my thumb on the flat surface of the zytel handle. As I pull the knife out, I turn my wrist palm up and my thumb goes naturally into the hole. Continuing the motion, I flick the blade open with the thumb, then put my thumb on the zytel handle, pinch it between my index finger and thumb, turn my palm sideways, get my last three fingers around the handle and get the knife into a hammer grip.

It sounds lengthy, but so far it seems the fastest way to do the thumb opening from tip up, IMHO.

The shake and flick open I can only do with the endura. I grab the knife as described above but don't do the palm up. I shake the knife down hard(the zytel is rough, so there is some friction), making sure that sufficient force is used, and my hand jerks to a stop to send the blade out. Then I flick the wrist outwards to lock the blade.

Only disadvantage is that more space may be required to open the knife, but it may be faster than the thumb flick.

Anyway, I'm sure you know this.

Best wishes for your recovery from SYK

[This message has been edited by SYK (edited 08-12-2000).]
 
Syk,

The hand is getting better slowly, thanks for asking. Still anticipating full recovery, but Phys Therapy is rough and I can't hold a pencil let alone do a quick draw with my Endura. I'm carrying as a lefty for now though. I'll probably wait until my hand is fully recovered before I actually buy the new knife (so I can handle different ones as recommended), but I'd like to have the preliminary leg work done by then.

Thanks again!

Dave
 
Here' s a different twist worth noting. Especially if one of your choices for carrying is to be able to get it out in a pinch. I have found that carrying coins in the pocket where your tip DOWN folder is clipped to can be hazardous to your health! Depending on the model any number of coins and find its way into and between the blade and its respective scale and hopelessly jam its opening action! Purely from experimentation, I' ve not ever experienced coins lodging itself in any of my tip up folders since their spines are oriented up against the outer side pocket stitching. Other folders beside Spydies included.

As for lightweight 3", I' d have to vote for the now discontinued but obtainable tip down carry CO5 Standard with G10 scales. At 2.75 oz. it is just right.

L8r,
Nakano

[This message has been edited by Nakano 2 (edited 08-13-2000).]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top