Should waterstones be recommended for an unskilled person?

i use water on all my stones. once you put oil on a stone it becomes an oil stone forever. also, stones meant for water should only be used with water.

i've used stones since i began learning how to sharpen. i recommend learning how to use stones and freehand sharpen because it allows you to sharpen nearly anything with just about any sharpening system/media. the first and most important thing you must learn is to be able to hold the blades angle consistent through the entire sharpening process. when i first started teaching myself, i went out and bought an inexpensive combination stone and few used/abused kitchen knives (like dexter/russell) from a thrift store. i practiced by putting all new edges on the knives. then i practiced by putting different angle edges and seeing how the knives performed with the different angles.

the second most important thing is learning how much pressure to apply throughout different stages of the process. as you get closer to a finished edge you will use less pressure.

water stones cut fast (they will remove material pretty fast) because the abrasive particles come off the stone easily and this constantly keeps new abrasive particles exposed. because of this you have to flatten the stones regularly, otherwise they will concave.

i would recommend getting an inexpensive 250/1000 combination water stone and a flattening stone. the 250 will be able to quickly redo an edge and the 1000 will put a decent cutting edge on it. practice on cheap knives that you don't really care about ruining. i'll recommend (high carbon-stainless) kitchen knives because they will see more action than most other knives (unless you have a pocket knife that you cut cardboard with all day). water stones have to be soaked before you use them (for 5-10 minutes) and as you use them you will drip more water on the surface to keep it wet.

if you have any other questions, feel free to ask.
 
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I don't see why not, sharpening is a skill built on knowledge and practice not tools.

Personally I think waterstones are a great teacher because if you screw up the stone lets you know. Miss your angle or go to far up on the tip and you gouge the stone. It can suck because you now just messed up the edge but you work to control your hand movements better so it won't happen again. With other types of stones you never really know when you have missed the angle or made other minor mistakes. Often you hear something like " I just got the UF ceramic but it only made my edges dull" this is a common issue of making one pass at too high of a angle unknowningly. It basically does the same thing as gouging a waterstone its just you don't feel it, hear it, or see it in the stone so as far as you know you never missed the angle.

So for pros and cons.

Pros:
Fast cutting
highly effective on carbon steels
great feel and extremely enjoyable to use

Cons:
messy
many types of stones with different binders, effects on steel, feel, and techniques of use.
Stainless steels can sometimes suck to sharpen depending on the stone too.

Waterstones, diamond stones, ceramics, oil stones, I don't think it really matters one way or the other.
 
How unskilled?

Waterstones need to be flattened and if you do not recognize that a stone needs maintenance, your learning progress might be hindered by the ill-maintained equipment...and I would rather see the potential frustrations to be limited or eliminated for a learning novice when possible.

So I ask, how unskilled are you? If you have never sharpened before, I would suggest something like a diamond plate or a ceramic slip stone....the later being my preferred choice since it requires very little in maintenance and the only way you can really damage it is by breaking it or perhaps doing something really really silly that I can not comprehend as I type. (Diamonds can be knocked off the plate with too much pressure...otherwise they would be my top choice for a newby).

You are getting opinions...take them in and decide accordingly. There are MANY ways to sharpen effectively, and many excellent tools to use. Proper understanding of the pros, cons, and potential pitfalls will make your experience better...you are wise to seek advice and opinions.
 
Just because you're unskilled now doesn't mean it's gonna take you years of practice to become proficient. Sharpening isn't some mystical procedure you need to practice for years and years to get down. It's all about muscle memory. The more you do it, the better you get at holding your angle consistent. Use a sharpie marker on the edge so you can clearly see if you're being consistent or not, and it will also let you know when you're getting near the edge. For me, I prefer diamond stones though. Less hassle than water stones, and they're great for the newer super steels that are very hard.
 
As previously mentioned, focus on technique more than the tool. The main things to remember, regardless of method, are maintaining consistent angle, using light pressure, and don't rush.

It was mentioned how the waterstones provide very good feedback on angle and pressure. This reminded me of something I noticed recently. I've been working on my technique with using sandpaper on both soft and hard backing, and I noticed that using an edge-leading stroke (same as on a stone) with sandpaper will also encourage the user to maintain proper angle and pressure. If the angle's too steep, or the pressure is too heavy, you'll cut or tear the paper. As I was doing it, it was very difficult to ignore that fact, and it occurred to me that it'd be a great 'training aid' in good technique. Inexpensive, too.
 
Look on the bright side... If you're not consistent with your angles, you'll just end up with a convex edge... ;)
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
As previously mentioned, focus on technique more than the tool. The main things to remember, regardless of method, are maintaining consistent angle, using light pressure, and don't rush.

It was mentioned how the waterstones provide very good feedback on angle and pressure. This reminded me of something I noticed recently. I've been working on my technique with using sandpaper on both soft and hard backing, and I noticed that using an edge-leading stroke (same as on a stone) with sandpaper will also encourage the user to maintain proper angle and pressure. If the angle's too steep, or the pressure is too heavy, you'll cut or tear the paper. As I was doing it, it was very difficult to ignore that fact, and it occurred to me that it'd be a great 'training aid' in good technique. Inexpensive, too.
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Great advice. While I agree that sharpening is not mystical or anything special...when you are starting out, you know very little...including what methods you may enjoy most (and in spite of some claims...a lot of sharpening tool choice really comes down to preference...you can argue performance all day long...but you can get an edge VERY VERY sharp with practically any decent sharpening equipment with good technique).

Some of those decisions can only be made from trial and error (and by buying stuff that you may later decide you do not prefer).

Starting out with something REALLY basic is a good way to answer a few questions for little investment. Another consideration I give is, "when I do land on a preferred method (or list of methods) what will become of this thing I am about to buy....sandpaper can be re-purposed or discarded painlessly enough, and a ceramic slip stone can find favor as a travel sharpener that you may keep in a field pack or glove compartment.
 
Most people will need a good deal of practice before they start getting good results. I don't think waterstones are a bad idea -- but they are somewhat skill intensive, and a number of things can go wrong with them (not enough soak time, not wet enough in use, they can dish if you don't flatten them regularly).

If someone is willing to read about how to use them -- or buys an instructional video -- and they are WILLING TO FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS, waterstones offer a lot of feedback, and a great on carbon steels. But, at the same time, some people might be put off by the difficulty they will probably have in getting good results, and the fact that it does take a little while to get good results on larger blades. Also - the stones can be somewhat spendy in terms of initial investment; especially if you get a diamond plate to flatten them.

Honestly, I think that it is better to introduce people to sharpening with something like the sharpmaker -- or, if that's too much for them to feel comfortable spending, the little Lansky crock stick sharpener (works on the same principle, uses the same basic technique, uses shorter round ceramic rods). These sharpeners let people get over the 'psychological barrier' to sharpening; they quickly realize that if they follow instructions they can get their knives screaming sharp.

Once they get a crock stick setup, and get comfortable with it, I'd give them a strop. After that introduce them to using wet or dry sandpaper on a piece of glass; or micro finishing film on glass if they don't mind spending a bit more. All of this can be done VERY cheaply, and teaches basic skills. You could probably introduce waterstones shortly after glass and sandpaper.

Waterstones, or sandpaper and glass, are a better place to start for woodworkers or people who use carbon steel blades with zero grinds; especially chisel ground ones.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
As previously mentioned, focus on technique more than the tool. The main things to remember, regardless of method, are maintaining consistent angle, using light pressure, and don't rush.
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How do you know at what angle you're holding the blade? Is there a guide for say, 30 degrees or 20 degrees?
 
The pros of cheap, combination hone waterstones are their low cost and their cutting power. The cons are learning how to maintain them and the dreaded urge to become a rock junky.
 
lacrosse11attack said:
does anybody have some suggestions for a water stone to buy to start out with? pm me if needed
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you can google search "king 250/1000 water stone". a 250/1000 combination water stone will run you about $25 and a norton flattening stone will run about $25-$30.

to keep the stone from moving on our table you can either use a wet hand/dish towel or rubber cabinet draw liner (this is what i use).
 
lacrosse11attack said:
And whats the flattening stone do again?
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you use it to keep the water stone flat. as you use the water stone the abrasive particles come loose. this allows the stone to cut fast because fresh particles are constantly being exposed. most of the knife's contact with the stone will occur about 2-3 inches each direction of the stone's center (for an 8" stone), this will cause the stone to become concave over time. i try to use as much of the stones surface as possible, but you can never cause the stone to evenly wear while sharpening knives. i flatten my water stones right after im done sharpening with them, then i let them air dry over night.

p.s. you will have to soak a water stone for good 5+ minutes before using it. as you sharpen with it you will drip water on the surface to keep it wet.
 
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Murray Carter has a video on youtube that shows a way of flattening the waterstone while sharpening by sharpening. Don't have the link handy right now, but it's doable and costs less than using a flattening stone or using sandpaper over glass.
 
i wouldn't recommend this to a beginner. better focusing on your angle and pressure control. when sharpening feels natural you can focus on using as much stone surface as possible. i can pretty much use 80% of the stone when working in sections. and work both ends from time to time.
working heel to tip is a bit more tricky because it wears the stone in a triangular area. either way you have to flip the stone occasionnaly when sharpening.
 
Indiana Joe said:
How do you know at what angle you're holding the blade? Is there a guide for say, 30 degrees or 20 degrees?
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Many different ways to do it, IF you want to aim for a specific angle. The most accurate way would be to calculate it (using trig functions), based upon the width of the blade and how far the spine needs to be raised from the sharpening surface to hit a certain angle number. You could simply start with placing a couple of coins on the surface, under the blade spine, to provide a visual reference as a starting point, before beginning each sharpening stroke. If you don't yet have a feel for what angle would be 'right' for your blade, it'd be best to practice with a cheap knife (or several) first.

As has been mentioned by others, many people (I suspect most) just 'guesstimate' what looks or feels 'right' for their needs, and then just focus on keeping the bevel FLAT. By 'maintaining a consistent angle', this is what I am referring to. It's not about hitting a certain angle measurement for me, but simply focusing on NOT raising/lowering the spine on each stroke (which will result in rounding of the bevel). For me, the best way to see if you're consistent, is to closely (and frequently) inspect the edge under magnification as you work. The 'Sharpie' method works well for this too. Mark the edge with black ink before you begin, and pay close attention to where the black is coming off. Maintaining consistency is more about muscle memory & feel. The only way to develop that is through frequent practice.
 
i dont think a person should buy a waterstone until they get good at holding an angle by eye and keep the angles even. i never used guides and could put a nice looking edge on any knife i sharpened. obsessed with edges and unit both bring up good points. when i used to hand sharpen, i would use my fingers laying on whatever abraisve i was using to judge angles and help maintain them. if you cant hold an angle and you start using an expensive waterstone, you can eat that stone down quick.

a buddy bought one for sharpening lathe cutting tools. he didnt know they were as soft as they were and put a nice 1/4" long dip in the stone with a 3/8 turning tool.

having a good place to sharpen can help out greatly. if you have to contort yorself or sit funny, you are not going to do a good job sharpening. i liked to be standing with whatever abrasive i am using to be about bellybutton high.

for something cheap, get a 400 grit jflex belt and rubber cement a 12" length to a piece of 1/4" glass that you fasten to a wood base which is long enough so it will allow for it to be clamped down. the 400

i push the knife away from me and lift the handle to follow the belly up to the tip while maintaining the angle. switch hands and do the same for the other side. it helps to have a raised platform the same width as your abrasive.

once you learn how to keep and hold an angle then i would start to look for some better stones and get used to using them before going to waterstones.
 
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