Should we abandon the UN? (When)

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My personal opinion is that the UN has gone the way of the League of Nations. It has become a huge beaurocracy with no spine and dull teeth. Take the story of the day...

"Russia and China, allies of Iran, say that council involvement will lead Iran to expel nuclear inspectors and leave the treaty entirely."

Has that not already happened?

Question...Why the hell are russia and China on the security council in the first dang place?

What did we learn from the League of Nations? When do we cut our losses and tell the UN to relocate its worthless headquarters? What would happen to the UN if we just evicted them? What if we just refused to fund them? Could they even relocate, or would they crash and burn in a disorganized pile of steaming vommit before they could set anything else up? How much of our soverenty can we seceed?


http://www.charter.net/news/read.php?ps=1012&id=12644064&_LT=HOME_LARSDCCL2_UNEWS
 
Should we abandon the UN? (When)
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Yes, and Now. The UN is no longer a useful body; perhaps it never was. If an entity is not helping to resolve issue then it only adds to the confusion and hinders progress. Clear it out of the way and make room for something better; something that works.

n2s
 
The UN is good for nations getting together and addressing common problems of humanity, refugees, disease outbreaks, etc.

It's not so good at addressing conflicts and internal political affairs within a country.

It is somewhat good at resolving conflicts between countries.

Program to clear landmines to protect civilians after a conflict - good

Monitoring and aid to victims of Chernobyl - good

Pushing for global human rights - good
 
aproy1101 said:
Could they even relocate, or would they crash and burn in a disorganized pile of steaming vommit before they could set anything else up? How much of our soverenty can we seceed?
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Man, that's angry... Take a deep breath.....;) Take a day off from Talk Radio;)
 
hollowdweller said:
The UN is good for nations getting together and addressing common problems of humanity, refugees, disease outbreaks, etc.

It's not so good at addressing conflicts and internal political affairs within a country.

It is somewhat good at resolving conflicts between countries.

Program to clear landmines to protect civilians after a conflict - good

Monitoring and aid to victims of Chernobyl - good

Pushing for global human rights - good
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I agree with this HD. However its a high price to pay for these benefits, and the body seems to get in the way with more serious issues more than it helps. Now you and I don't see eye to eye on politics, I'll give you that, but I don't think of you as regurgitating talk radio onto us and I will demand the same respect. Each of these topics I've started had a link to an article. That particular line you pointed wasn't supposed to sound angry so much as to point out the shallow nature of the body. (Maybe a little angry;) ) I think one strategy for causing the collapse of the UN would be to force it to move. I don't think it could. I think it would collapse. For that matter I'm not sure our govt could move either. So much beaurocracy. It would be like moving a two ton amoeba. Good luck. Good riddance. (Edited to add: To the UN I mean)
 
Sorry the UN seems to be the whipping boy of the right and I read these type posts over and over again in different places:yawn: -

To me the whole UN thing, Abortion, Gay Marriage, Equal Opportunity, Martin Luther King, Reparations for Slavery and other race baiting threads are all just distractions so we won't notice that people are losing their jobs, healthcare, and pensions, that the country is falling behind in income, education, infant mortality and life expectancy and we are so in debt that we can't really address our slide to the bottom. Meanwhile we can't even fight a war right anymore either. :rolleyes:
 
The UN needs to start selling hotdogs to offset the cost of these bribes, kick backs, misappropriated funds, money for oil, and sexual misconduct of various staff members.




munk
 
Although not a Swiss citizen, or never even having visited there, I am proud (!?) to say that the Swiss are not members of the UN or the EU.

I hope they stay that way. I wish we were that way. I wish we had big rifle matches likke the Swiss do too.

I wish we had teenagers riding their bikes with assault rifles headed to the range...

I wish we stayed out of business that didn't belong to us.

I wish we had 800 years of bottom up government under our belts, instead of 200+ years of top down government.

:grumpy: :o :(

Tom
 
..some will say that I'm a Dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one.


Lennon
 
hollowdweller said:
Sorry the UN seems to be the whipping boy of the right and I read these type posts over and over again in different places:yawn: -

To me the whole UN thing, Abortion, Gay Marriage, Equal Opportunity, Martin Luther King, Reparations for Slavery and other race baiting threads are all just distractions so we won't notice that people are losing their jobs, healthcare, and pensions, that the country is falling behind in income, education, infant mortality and life expectancy and we are so in debt that we can't really address our slide to the bottom. Meanwhile we can't even fight a war right anymore either. :rolleyes:
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HEAR HEAR!!

When we have a return to vigilance by those from the extreme fringes of the right wing, then I will listen. I don't care if I disagree with you; I am more concerned over the integrity with which you represent those positions. And this requires scrutiny of said positions...

That certainly goes for ideologies left or middle as well.

As for the U.N. being a presence in this country... Well.. We are (currently) the most priviledged country on the planet. I don't have a problem with playing host to that parasite, if it does anything worthwhile. And I think it occasionally... very occasionally... does.

Just my dos centavos.
 
hollowdweller said:
The UN is good for nations getting together and addressing common problems of humanity, refugees, disease outbreaks, etc.

It's not so good at addressing conflicts and internal political affairs within a country.

It is somewhat good at resolving conflicts between countries.

Program to clear landmines to protect civilians after a conflict - good

Monitoring and aid to victims of Chernobyl - good

Pushing for global human rights - good
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The UN is terrible at getting nations together to address refugees (it does nothing for them or it exacerbates their problems) and disease outbreaks, natural disasters, and similar mass emergencies it deals with by scheduling conferences, to meet after the US and other efficiently concerned nations have independently cleaned up the mess.

It refuses to address internal affairs of the most depraved regimes in an effective way.

It does nothing to resolve conflicts between countries, and by stalling direct resolution between the countries involved, it makes the ultimate solution more expensive.

Since when is the UN needed to clear landmines and provide Chernobyl or other medical assistance? Private organizations do the work on the ground, not the UN. Denmark clears more landmines than the UN, not that they see much gratitude for it these days..

The only effect the UN has on human rights is to protect the abusers from retribution. (Sudan, anyone?)

To me the whole UN thing, Abortion, Gay Marriage, Equal Opportunity, Martin Luther King, Reparations for Slavery and other race baiting threads are all just distractions so we won't notice that people are losing their jobs, healthcare, and pensions, that the country is falling behind in income, education, infant mortality and life expectancy and we are so in debt that we can't really address our slide to the bottom. Meanwhile we can't even fight a war right anymore either.
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This is exactly what you accuse others of doing, lumping it all together as if it's a conspiracy to deprive you of your right to give all the orders.

"the whole UN thing, Abortion, Gay Marriage, Equal Opportunity, Martin Luther King, Reparations for Slavery and other race baiting" have nothing to do with each other, except as questions on which you largely disagree with others here.

people are losing their jobs, healthcare, and pensions,

Where? In Russia? The US is in a prolonged economic upturn, unemployment is constantly dropping, and real wages are rising due to the shortage of out of work job-seekers.

Healthcare and pensions are a great place for unions (anybody remember unions?) to focus their attention, instead of wasting their bargaining power trying to shore up a moribund Democratic Party.

that the country is falling behind in income, education, infant mortality and life expectancy

Falling behind other countries or our own record?

You can make up allegations, but I doubt you even know where to go for figures supporting this.

and we are so in debt that we can't really address our slide to the bottom.

Debt is an interesting concept. We are a consumer society, and since the Second World War was over, we have not focussed on balancing our wants with our needs. But then, the rest of the world is rapidly catching on to the idea, and they want their MTV, too.

Meanwhile we can't even fight a war right anymore either

You're kidding. You must read the New York Times.
 
I am a conservative, but not perhaps as politically astute as some on this forum. As long as my family was fed, we could pay our taxes without borrowing, and there was just enough to fix the washer if it went blooey, I always figured "Leave me alone, and let me do my job." Now retired, I have had a little more time to read and reflect, and I wonder why we're paying the lion's share of U.N. funding, while the third world uses it every day as a forum to blast us. If not backing out completely (there remains an opportunity to discuss real issues there), at least we ought to back way off the amount of money we give them, forcing others to pay their fair share or close shop. That should happen now, not later. Let them move it to Nigeria, or Peru, or India, or..........
 
No problem about the UN moving. They have been complaining for years now that the old Secretariat building is worn out and needs upgrading. They want to grab some more land nearby, put up another building, renovate the current one, and then keep both so they can d o m o r e.

I say refuse to give them more land and tell them if they want a new building to use what they've got in Geneva.

You have no idea what obnoxious neighbors they can be until you've lived and worked near them in New York. :rolleyes:
 
Personally I would like to see the UN moved lock, stock and barrel to Somalia. Diplomatic immunity my a$$. ;)
 
All I can say is this:

They dicked around with Saddam for a decade.

In that time he slaughtered thousands of his people.

We had to dance around like a whore to get at him-truely if 9/11 hadn't happend we never would have.

Now they insist on "justice" in his handeling-why? he's gulty as all hell,just shoot the bastid.

The U.N. is as it title lettering states-UN-Universal Nothing.:D

And I'm not real political-this is just commen sense!
 
You should never underestimate the positive, powerful and peace-building effects of blowing smoke up people's asses.

That is something I have learned here in Japan. Every week people come here from all over the world "to train" and you'd be amazed at how many of them, once they get here, don't really seem interested in training. They come here for the old "fumi ad rectum." (And they leave happy as clams)

It is important to be able to make other people feel important, most especially when they are not. The amount of money we save by letting Dictator X and Prime Minister B get up on the podium and get their pictures taken far outweighs the cost. The UN is a valuable tool for us. Just dont ever let them know why...
 
Well done Danny!

brevity, humor, sarcasm, wisdom...

Did I leave out anything?

Oh, and thanks for the warning to always beware of smokeblowers!

Tom
 
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