Should You Talk to the Police?

Great video. I suggest everyone watch it and check the "flex your rights" site. It's sad that this is so true. I have experienced this first hand and it works. I won't post the gory details.
 
interesting vid, ill try and watch it in its entirety tomorrow.

be forewarned, there are some other "related" videos on that page that i dont think are appropriate for this forum. perhaps current events, but not in knife laws.
 
I watched them and as Morimtom stated they are interesting, but you MUST remember these are taped as a part of a LEGAL class for persons attending law school. Having severed my years as a NYC LEO, I will tell you there was little you had to fear in providing an honest answer to questions when you where in fact innocent. NY is very liberal, and the ADA would not allow you to bring charges for a possible inditement to the Grand Jury based on the weak examples he sited. Perhaps elsewhere there is more of an issue ,but not in NY. I would say that in what most of us are concerned about on this site ( weapons possession) what you say to the officer is the only thing that will possibly keep you out of the back seat of a patrol car. If you have been stopped for any lawful reason by an officer, there is a almost unquestionable right for the officer to frisk you for a weapon, and if your "illegal" knife is found as the result of the frisk, you had better make every attempt to explain a lawful reason why you have it. The silence method advise will cost you legal fees, time in custody and an interesting story for you to post on blade formuns, when you are able to access the internet again ( if you get my message...lol...)
 
tom19176 said:
Having severed my years as a NYC LEO, I will tell you there was little you had to fear in providing an honest answer to questions when you where in fact innocent. NY is very liberal, and the ADA would not allow you to bring charges for a possible inditement to the Grand Jury based on the weak examples he sited.
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I remember from when I was on Grand Jury years ago in NYC we even threw out some charges the ADA brought ... which is after all what we were there for if we felt they were invalid. He had to make his case or go with a lesser charge. One ADA threw a fit when we tossed his case out, but he got removed from that assignment for his outburst. :)
 
finished watching the video, pretty entertaining.

i have no problem with people invoking their rights per the miranda warning.

but keep in mind, should you choose to invoke, and the only statements police have are those given by a victim/witness, an arrest will almost certainly be made.

the speaker asks an officer in the audience how many times a suspect ever convinced him of innocence/non-involvement, and the officer chose not to arrest. the officer answered "none".

my experience has been different. there have been times when i have arrived at a call to find a victim/wit who claims a person committed a crime. following an interview with the "suspect", some of those acts have been accidental (no criminal intent), wrong person, or some other mitigating circumstance.


this is not legal advice, just my experiences and opinion.
 
tom19176 said:
Having severed my years as a NYC LEO, I will tell you there was little you had to fear in providing an honest answer to questions when you where in fact innocent.
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It should be noted that they were talking about "serious" offenses such as murder and robbery. There is too much at stake and messing it up can land you in jail for years, or worse, on death row.

Are the examples cited by the lawyer in that video common? Probably not, but they could happen and especially if you´re innocent, you stand to gain absolutely nothing by making a statement yet even a minute slip of the tongue could be construed as evidence against you.

It´s a little different with "minor" offenses where there IS a chance the officer will let you off with a warning if you´re cooperative. Mind you, most of the time, they will NOT let you off. So yeah, saying nothing is probably the right choice in most cases.
 
tom19176 said:
I watched them and as Morimtom stated they are interesting, but you MUST remember these are taped as a part of a LEGAL class for persons attending law school. Having severed my years as a NYC LEO, I will tell you there was little you had to fear in providing an honest answer to questions when you where in fact innocent. NY is very liberal, and the ADA would not allow you to bring charges for a possible inditement to the Grand Jury based on the weak examples he sited. Perhaps elsewhere there is more of an issue ,but not in NY. I would say that in what most of us are concerned about on this site ( weapons possession) what you say to the officer is the only thing that will possibly keep you out of the back seat of a patrol car. If you have been stopped for any lawful reason by an officer, there is a almost unquestionable right for the officer to frisk you for a weapon, and if your "illegal" knife is found as the result of the frisk, you had better make every attempt to explain a lawful reason why you have it. The silence method advise will cost you legal fees, time in custody and an interesting story for you to post on blade formuns, when you are able to access the internet again ( if you get my message...lol...)
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It isn't all about charges, its about hassle. No reason to give LEOs probable cause with "honest" answers, especially when you're innocent. No reason to waste your time and theirs due to unnecessary miscommunication.
 
Arkeld said:
It should be noted that they were talking about "serious" offenses such as murder and robbery. There is too much at stake and messing it up can land you in jail for years, or worse, on death row.

Are the examples cited by the lawyer in that video common? Probably not, but they could happen and especially if you´re innocent, you stand to gain absolutely nothing by making a statement yet even a minute slip of the tongue could be construed as evidence against you.

It´s a little different with "minor" offenses where there IS a chance the officer will let you off with a warning if you´re cooperative. Mind you, most of the time, they will NOT let you off. So yeah, saying nothing is probably the right choice in most cases.
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Its like an oven, off is the default position :) silence is golden
 
Generally speaking, the less said the better. Under any circumstances, legal or otherwise, nothing you didn't say can be held against you. :)

But if you are under suspicion for whatever reason -- wrong place at the wrong time -- why wouldn't you point out facts that exonerate you?
 
Esav Benyamin said:
But if you are under suspicion for whatever reason -- wrong place at the wrong time -- why wouldn't you point out facts that exonerate you?
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I believe he explained that in the lecture. The example he gave was of a man who had an alibi and said so to the police.

If the police then find a witness who gets his dates wrong (in good faith) and disproves his alibi, without putting him on the crime scene, mind you, he stands before the jury as a liar.

Had he not given this aliby and instead waited until he knew what the police had, the witness alone would not have been enough to convict him.

I realize that this is a VERY unlikely set of circumstances, but again, the consequences are grave enough to consider even the unlikely. We want to be honest, most of us do, and we have been taught that if we are honest, everything will eventually be ok. Sadly, that is not true. Sometimes, being honest can be to your disadvantage, even if you have done nothing wrong.
 
I think if you're a witness, then that's one thing. If you're the grandparents of that missing Caley Ann girl, asking for immunity was probably a smart thing to do. If you wish to cooperate, I'd say do so with an attorney in the room with you and be discreet.

My father had someone try to break into his back porch one time. Whoever tried it had picked up a large rock and tried to smash the full length glass door. Fortunately it held. But my father, in his eighties, told the police that he had a gun and wouldn't hesitate to use it in an emergency. It was a stupid thing to say, right? Well, months later he was having some chest pains and my mother called 911. The emergency team stopped around the corner and waited for the police to get there. Why? Because some LEO had written down my father's statement and no one wanted to go into a situation where they might run into a demented old man with a gun! That aside, can you imagine the trouble such a statement might cause if he'd had to shoot someone?

Most cops don't want to be your buddy, though some do make good advocates if you impress them. But it's good to remember the professor's distinction between hearsay and stuff that can be used against you. Be polite, as helpful as possible and, by all means, quiet until you've had a chance to talk to an attorney.
 
Confederate said:
Most cops don't want to be your buddy, though some do make good advocates if you impress them. But it's good to remember the professor's distinction between hearsay and stuff that can be used against you. Be polite, as helpful as possible and, by all means, quiet until you've had a chance to talk to an attorney.
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that portion of the lecture on hearsay is probably confusing to some.

hearsay is admissable as evidence against someone. an officer's testimony about a statement someone else made (wit, suspect) is hearsay, and is admissable.

hearsay is not admissable (according to the speaker) when used by the defense to mitigate or exonerate.

i've never heard that before, don't know how true it is.
 
Arkeld said:
It should be noted that they were talking about "serious" offenses such as murder and robbery. There is too much at stake and messing it up can land you in jail for years, or worse, on death row.

Are the examples cited by the lawyer in that video common? Probably not, but they could happen and especially if you´re innocent, you stand to gain absolutely nothing by making a statement yet even a minute slip of the tongue could be construed as evidence against you.

It´s a little different with "minor" offenses where there IS a chance the officer will let you off with a warning if you´re cooperative. Mind you, most of the time, they will NOT let you off. So yeah, saying nothing is probably the right choice in most cases.
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the speaker is using extreme cases, no doubt. whether it is from his own personal experiences, second hand info, or just to make the lecture more convincing, we can't really know.
 
I still stick to my opinion that offering honest, limited repsonses to police questions by an innocent person, is still the best way to go. I would have deemed failure to communicate at all as a sign of wrong doing by the person being questioned. In NYC last year (2007) there were over 550,000 250 forms issued. A 250 is a form used by the NYPD when you stop a person for questioning and do not bring any charges against them. There had to be probale cause for the stop and frisk, that had to be noted on the form as to what the PC was. It seems clear that in all these cases the officers felt the answers provided by the person being questioned were acceptable.

Once again, I must say, this is a KNIFE site and the real law we are concerned about here reguards the legal possession of a knife. In all cases that you have been stopped and frisked by an officer, and found to be in possession of any knife, you had better inform the officer that it is a tool that you use for -----( fill in the blank). I would strongly advise against anyone not offering a reason why they possessed a knife unless they intend to deny possession in the first place ( ie the tooth fair put the switchblade in my pocket)......
 
tom19176 said:
In all cases that you have been stopped and frisked by an officer, and found to be in possession of any knife, you had better inform the officer that it is a tool that you use for -----( fill in the blank)
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I carry a small folder because its handy. I don't know what I may use it for. What do you recommend in a situation like this where I believe many of us are in? Just list possible uses?
 
opening mail, opening boxes, cutting my seatbelt should i t/c, pulling splinters, trimming fingernails, removing threads from clothing, shaving, as a screwdriver or prybar, disecting frogs in science class, a mirror....

point is, so long as your use is legal and reasonable, it is within the boundries of most sections.
 
MORIMOTOM said:
finished watching the video, pretty entertaining.

i have no problem with people invoking their rights per the miranda warning.

but keep in mind, should you choose to invoke, and the only statements police have are those given by a victim/witness, an arrest will almost certainly be made.
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True. There may be times that you want to get your side out there, if you haven't done anything wrong. You invoke and the police will go by the version they get. It really depends on the situation.
 
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