Shredded Caged Bearing

[Otto Carpenter]

Bought a used TAD Dauntless on the Exchange and the action was iffy and got worse quickly. Opened it up to find the caged-bearing collar (handle-side) broken in two and the bearings running loose (see first pic). You can see the jagged edges where the collar fell apart. I sent an email to TAD but don't expect that TAD customer service will supply advice based on past threads, since they don't actually manufacture the knife. Went online to USA Knife Maker.com and bought this replacement set (pic 2). Same inner diameter and look the same to my eye. Hopefully they'll fit. I gotta believe these things are standardized.

 

[ChazzyP]

Followed your Profile over here from the other thread we posted on.

I considered trading for a Dauntless a while ago, but decided against it based on what you've described regarding the farmed out manufacture. It seems you knew what you were getting into and have moved right toward a solution. Here's hoping the parts fit and your knife will be whole again and function well for you.

 

[Otto Carpenter]

Followed your Profile over here from the other thread we posted on.

I considered trading for a Dauntless a while ago, but decided against it based on what you've described regarding the farmed out manufacture. It seems you knew what you were getting into and have moved right toward a solution. Here's hoping the parts fit and your knife will be whole again and function well for you.

Appreciate your perspective and well-wishes. There are a couple of things I really like about the knife - aesthetics and size being high on the list - plus so many people have positive reviews posted on Youtube. Having received the knife (used) and encountering this problem is a buzz-kill, for sure, and I'm not so sure I'd recommend it after opening it up and seeing what my hard-earned cash bought. If I can resolve the problem with the parts I bought from usaknifemaker.com, I'll post again with the results.

A large part of this hobby is about making choices and sometimes regretting them. This is not a high-end knife, regardless of the relatively high price relative to my means. I expected more, is all I can say about it. Who knows, this could turn out well, but this knife is not a collectible - it's a user with a cool, semi-militaristic look to it. If I can get the action humming, I'll be happy.

 

[timichango]

Worst case, you can probably employ the same solution as one does when caged bearings fail in older bicycle headsets/bottom brackets, and no caged replacement can be sourced: figure out the size of ball being used, and take advantage of the missing cage to add more ball bearings (since you'll have extra space between the bearings, due to the absence of the cage). The tension on the bearings once the knife is assembled should keep them in the bearing race if it's designed correctly, even without the cage, and the fringe benefit is a stronger junction due to more bearing material than before.

Loose bearings usually get caged for convenience of assembly, not for strength. If you need to make'em stay put when trying to reassemble without the cages, try adding a bead of thick grease around the bearing race to stick'em put where you want them.

 

[Otto Carpenter]

Worst case, you can probably employ the same solution as one does when caged bearings fail in older bicycle headsets/bottom brackets, and no caged replacement can be sourced: figure out the size of ball being used, and take advantage of the missing cage to add more ball bearings (since you'll have extra space between the bearings, due to the absence of the cage). The tension on the bearings once the knife is assembled should keep them in the bearing race if it's designed correctly, even without the cage, and the fringe benefit is a stronger junction due to more bearing material than before.

Loose bearings usually get caged for convenience of assembly, not for strength. If you need to make'em stay put when trying to reassemble without the cages, try adding a bead of thick grease around the bearing race to stick'em put where you want them.

That's an interesting thought. I still have the 9 bearings from the torn cage - I could try using those without the cage to see what happens. Alpha Knife Supply sells all kinds of bearings but there's a minimum $25 order. I've got a caged set from USA Knife Maker on the way. If those don't fit, I'll try an order from Alpha. I'm not giving up.

 

[Otto Carpenter]

Loose bearings usually get caged for convenience of assembly, not for strength. If you need to make'em stay put when trying to reassemble without the cages, try adding a bead of thick grease around the bearing race to stick'em put where you want them.

Wanted you to know, I put some 85W Nano oil in the bearing race and plopped the 9 original ball bearings in the race's groove. Put the knife back together with loose bearings on the handle side and caged bearings on the lock side and it's running great! Don't know if those bearings will stay put, but as you suggested, the tension of the reassembled knife is up against them and gives them no where to go. I don't know about buying additional bearings, since you have to buy in quantity (but they are cheap, even if you have to buy 100). Thank you for the suggestion! This was my first knife maintenance project as a newbie, and so far I'm pleased.

 

[ChazzyP]

Loose bearings usually get caged for convenience of assembly, not for strength. If you need to make'em stay put when trying to reassemble without the cages, try adding a bead of thick grease around the bearing race to stick'em put where you want them.

Thanks for posting your work-around for loose bearings--an inter-disciplinary tip that's worth remembering. I don't know if that's something I would have thought of if I ran into that situation.

Wanted you to know, I put some 85W Nano oil in the bearing race and plopped the 9 original ball bearings in the race's groove. Put the knife back together with loose bearings on the handle side and caged bearings on the lock side and it's running great! Don't know if those bearings will stay put, but as you suggested, the tension of the reassembled knife is up against them and gives them no where to go. I don't know about buying additional bearings, since you have to buy in quantity (but they are cheap, even if you have to buy 100). Thank you for the suggestion! This was my first knife maintenance project as a newbie, and so far I'm pleased.

Great news on the knife, Otto. If you try the caged bearings when they come, let us know how they fit and function. It might be a good idea to do so, as uneven distribution of the loose bearings might affect blade travel or play.

BTW, I'm a big NanoOil fan. I have 5W, 10W, and 85W which I bought as a package deal. I haven't used the 85, but recently have thought about using it as a substitute for grease in my CRKs. At least one poster mentioned trying it in my thread about use of alternate lubes in those knives here.

Christian St Claire was very generous with his time and product when I had an alcohol leak in my knife maintenance bag wreck the pen applicators. He answered by email with a phone call and sent me three new applicators to save the product into. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: for Christian and NanoOil.

 

[Otto Carpenter]

Great news on the knife, Otto. If you try the caged bearings when they come, let us know how they fit and function. It might be a good idea to do so, as uneven distribution of the loose bearings might affect blade travel or play.

That's an excellent point and it did occur to me. The caged bearing set should be delivered by Mon. or Tues. and I definitely plan on installing them.

Your point on uneven distribution and blade travel seems to be bearing out (pun intended, but it's the best way to put it). The blade does indeed drift after numerous deployments and requires me to loosen the pivot and realign centering. After the adjustment, the knife action is stellar once again. I will Loctite the pivot after the new caged bearing goes in (hopefully it's the right size). If it's not the right size, I'll cannibalize the bearings from the new set (if they're the same diameter) and add them to the existing ones for even distribution around the entire race.

I'll let you know. Thanks for the interest and the input.

 

[ChazzyP]

Otto, I must say that I find it very refreshing that you have not expended any verbiage lambasting whomever you bought the knife from. Whether or not you were in contact and made any complaint or adjustment is unknown and, to my way of thinking, entirely appropriate. There's just so much gnashing of teeth and pointing of fingers that goes on here that your approach is refreshing indeed--just set about fixing the damn thing. Very much the manner in which I have proceeded in similar situations. :thumbup:

BTW, before I wrote the paragraph above I took the time to check your feedback and if there was anything there that might belie what my impression was. I clicked on your feedback for Vladimir_K only to discover that you had purchased one of those three Neons he had up for sale. Having bought an F85 and 111 recently, I was sorely tempted to spring for a smaller Shiro as well and but the last one was SPF when I looked. I'm not sure whether to be annoyed with you for getting one of them (especially in M390) or be thankful to you for saving me from another unnecessary expenditure. Probably the latter, so thanks, man.

How do you like that knife, anyway?

 

[Otto Carpenter]

Otto, I must say that I find it very refreshing that you have not expended any verbiage lambasting whomever you bought the knife from. Whether or not you were in contact and made any complaint or adjustment is unknown and, to my way of thinking, entirely appropriate. There's just so much gnashing of teeth and pointing of fingers that goes on here that your approach is refreshing indeed--just set about fixing the damn thing. Very much the manner in which I have proceeded in similar situations. :thumbup:

BTW, before I wrote the paragraph above I took the time to check your feedback and if there was anything there that might belie what my impression was. I clicked on your feedback for Vladimir_K only to discover that you had purchased one of those three Neons he had up for sale. Having bought an F85 and 111 recently, I was sorely tempted to spring for a smaller Shiro as well and but the last one was SPF when I looked. I'm not sure whether to be annoyed with you for getting one of them (especially in M390) or be thankful to you for saving me from another unnecessary expenditure. Probably the latter, so thanks, man.

How do you like that knife, anyway?

Hey, Chazzy. Welp, it's possible the owner of the Dauntless didn't know what was going on inside so I kept it to myself and, as you say, just went about fixing it. BTW, installed the new caged bearings from usknifemaker.com this afternoon and the knife is just smooth as can be. I'm pleased. The big components - their manufacturing tolerances and weight balance - are what matters. Bearings, I discovered, are not a big deal for a production knife of this caliber. I am happy with the knife now. All I have to do is pickup some blue Loctite tomorrow and fine tune the pivot.

Ha! Yes, I have coveted a Neon for a while, and when Vlad put it up I couldn't resist. I wrestle with the same misgivings you do about unnecessary expenditures, but in the end the bills get paid and I have a Shiro. It's a truly great small knife that is pretty much everything I could have hoped for. The detent is weaker than I'm used to, but the blade is very quick to deploy and just falls back into the handle as quickly as gravity allows - surprisingly so, given the blade's low mass. It's beautifully done for all it's simplicity. Makes me think about a second Shiro. Know the feeling?

 

[ChazzyP]

It's beautifully done for all it's simplicity. Makes me think about a second Shiro. Know the feeling?

Only too well, Otto. I sold a knife with the express purpose of putting the money toward a Shiro. I struggled choosing between an F85 in Python Micarta that another member had offered to sell me privately and a blue/black G10 111 in M390 that had lingered on the Exchange for a while. In the end I bought the Python as I didn't want my first Shiro to be just too damn big. Well, I had my knife about a day and wanted the other one too, but had to take seconds and missed out on it. After 11 days of searching and price-checking I pulled the trigger on a 111 in M390 with fuller and CF scales. Shiros are definitely way too expensive but are amazingly well made and beautiful in their simplicity of design. My two are at post #171 at my "Pics of Pairs" thread here.

Glad to hear everything worked out and your knife is functioning as it should. Every time you use it now it'll be even more satisfying having made it right--good way to make it your own.

--Steve

 

[Otto Carpenter]

Shiros are definitely way too expensive but are amazingly well made and beautiful in their simplicity of design. My two are at post #171 at my "Pics of Pairs" thread here.

Glad to hear everything worked out and your knife is functioning as it should. Every time you use it now it'll be even more satisfying having made it right--good way to make it your own.

--Steve

If you've ever been over to Mindlessmark's Youtube channel, you'll see just how expensive this little hobby can get. Just wow. Shiro's enter the realm of art, especially their Custom Division stuff, so you can sort of justify the cost if you have the means. I'd rather have one or two Shiro's than a huge collection of production knives.

And, again, you're right about this little project endearing the Dauntless to me. I've figured out what makes it tick and now it's truly mine.

 

[Otto Carpenter]

My two are at post #171 at my "Pics of Pairs" thread here.
--Steve

Just took a peek - beautiful examples (and nice photography, btw). Enjoy.
-Mitch