shrinking stabilized scales

[SBranson]

I had the unfortunate email from a friend that the scales on the knife I made him have shrunk and lifted up near the blade end of the handle.
These were stabilized spalted maple and when sighting down the length of the knife, you can see that they are bowed up, still attached to the liners but distinctly bent upwards from shrinkage. Also the pins are a little proud now.

I kinda though that stabilizing would take care of this but I'm starting to suspect the source of this block. I've had trouble with another block of stabilized spalted maple from them with lots of flaking and bits of grain falling out.

Granted, the wood came from a British Columbia climate and were in an Alberta winter climate so from humid to dry but still...

Common and expected? Is it the species? Should I suspect the company of not doing it right?

Thanks

 

[Jack O'Neill]

I just had the same bad experience happen to me . I'm hoping it is just one of those freak incidents as I have another knife out there with wood from the same company . And there are good comments about this company from the folks here on the forum .

 

[KnifeMaker.ca]

Stabilizing will almost certainly make the product more stable than it was - but to varying degrees. Wild burls still have those internal stresses present and while they may not move as much, it is still possible that they might move some. Others - like African Blackwood for instance, will not take up much stabiliant - but will do better than unprocessed blocks.

Maple is pretty easy to stabilize, but if it is wildly figured, I'd be tempted to let it sit for a few months and then re-flatten if necessary. Stabilized is not the same as bombproof.

Rob!

 

[SBuzek]

Also if you go from a humid climate to dry climate they will shrink,not much but will make the spine stand out and the pins proud.I live near the gulf coast of Texas and our humidity is legendary.Used to keep my blocks in the shop and would have them shrink after putting them on the knife.
Now I store all my blocks inside the house and only take out the one I need for the knife,now some time they swell a little but thats not near a noticeable as shrinking.
I have my stuff stabilized by Wssi so I know their right,but change in climate will still make them move.
Stan

 

[Woodstabilizer]

Hi Folks!

Yep, It was us.....Woodstabilzer.com....happened about a year ago.....he (Stuart) wasn’t the only one......It was a whole lot of spalted wood, and this is gonna sound real bad, but I don’t know what the heck went wrong....I don’t know if we screwed up in our process, or if we didn’t check the moisture before we did it and the wood was maybe too wet.....(I’ve been racking my brain for a while on this one).....and it has never happened since......so I really don’t know. (We lost Bark River Knives over that one).

I read the bit about going from a humid climate to a dry climate, (which does happen....not often, but it is a good idea to let the wood sit a bit on arrival so it gets acclimatized), however I don’t think that’s the case here....we have been sending our stabilized wood all over the world ever since, and more incidents like this should have occurred if climate was the main variable! I will say that on perhaps 2 occasions over the last year, I have had some scales “cup” when cut from freshly stabilized blocks that were extra burly, but I think that is mostly because they were still de-gassing....I should have let them sit longer....

We still do all the amboyna for Henkel Knives (Japan), and it is so humid there it makes Vancouver BC seem like a desert.....I think if humidity was the issue some of their scales would have turned into pretzels too!

Here is the email I sent Stuart today (We heard from him today too):

From: Christina Rytter <sales@woodstabilizer.com>

Date: January 8, 2011 3:54:30 PM PST

To: Stuart Branson
Subject: Re: Problems with Spalted Maple



Hi Stuart

It's Mike from Woodstabilizer.

I am really terribly sorry.

I know it's not much consolation, but the same thing happened to a few more of our customers with some spalt we did about a year ago. We are sure it was the wood, or a missed step in our procedure, not our recipe , because we have never changed that.

This issue only occured with the spalt, and ONLY at that time. We haven't had any similar issues since.....also, weirdly enough, there were no issues with any of the non-spalted woods we were doing at that time, nor with any customer owned spalt that was sent to us to be stabilized. This problem only occurred with our own spalt.....(Grrrrr!)

I have been racking my brain trying to figure out if it was something in the wood that repelled the stabilizer, or if we missed something in our process......(could have been either), as this was a whole lot of spalt at one time that did this, not just a few pieces....we sent Bark River a large order at the time, half of the order was spalt, the other half was curly and maple burl......ALL the spalt in the Bark River order did exactly as you describe...when they tried to cnc the spalt, it just flaked away! The rest of the order (the curly and the burl), was fine!

I wonder sometimes if it was something like we neglected to check the moisture.....if the moisture content is too high, there will be patches in the wood that doesn't stabilize.

We have never had an incident like this since......really have tried to figure out what it was though, because I sure don't want to repeat it! Had a lot of VERY unhappy people...... most of the ones we heard from are still customers, because we tried to make it right. (That was our first and last Bark River order though!) What really bothers me is the folks who may have had issues that we never heard from.....

So thank you for letting us know! (For being one of the ones we heard from!)

Stuart, if you send us your address, (and are willing to take a chance on us again), I would like to send you some replacement blocks, on us. If you are willing to do this, you can go to our website and pick some out. It doesn't have to be spalt...choose anything that catches your eye.

Thanks,
Mike

Just so everyone knows, our process, the chemicals we use and the curing, from what I know, is exactly like WSSI's. (The WSSI Mike's just been at it a lot longer (LOL!) If I thought he'd answer, he would definitely be the guy I'd ask to pinpoint what went wrong. If anyone would know the answer, he would. (Maybe Stuart could send him that flakey piece of wood! LOL!)

And... I would like to thank ALL of you for the kind manner in which you all discussed this. It seemed that everyone was more interested in finding solutions than throwing darts. (o.k...maybe knives? LOL!). In other forums, we probably would have been burned at the stake!

 

[SBranson]

Wow.. I just came here to post that a resolution had been arrived at and that it was an isolated problem. I appreciate your candour.
Thanks!!

 

[james terrio]

Spalts, burls and other highly figured woods are by their nature, highly unstable. That's why we have them stabilized, ho ho.

Not all "stabilizing" procedures are the same. I suspect that NO process will render a piece of natural wood completely inert, but some seem to be better than others.

I built a knife several weeks ago with scales of dyed, stabilized birdseye maple from a reputable source... the scales had been in my shop for over a year with plenty of time to swell/shrink/acclimate with the seasons...

After finishing the knife and leaving it in the shop for a couple weeks, I brought it out to take pics and put it up for sale... the scales had shrunk so much (nearly 1/32" in places)that the edges of the tang felt sharp under a fingertip dragged across it. NOT good. To some folks, 1/32" is nothing... to me, that's a Grand Canyon of "oops... I won't put my name on this."

While muttering bad words and re-grinding the tang so the handle would be comfortable, I remembered that the vendor I bought the scales from had changed their process in the meantime, due to similar complaints.

My points?

1) Vendors like Christina and the fellow I bought those scales from are doing thier very best to get it right. Thank you!

2) Wood is still wood. It can get wiggly. Even micarta and G10 may be subject to dimensional changes and may absorb stuff that changes their color.

3) As a maker I think the best I can do is to seek the best stuff available, and inform my clients that dimensional touch-ups are covered under my warranty.

 

[Patrickknives]

I had three sets of stabilized amboya burl, not from wood stabilizers, the first pulled back a bit on the knife and had to be cut off. I lightly clamped the second to a handle and put it under a light to warm, next day it was warped. It was not hot maybe 80f, the third set did as well. I have not had any other problems with stabilized wood.