Shun Knifes: tsuchime done on core steel near edge - can this be right?

Joined
Nov 5, 2021
Messages
3
Hi all, my first post in this vivid community!

I recently bought a few KAI Shun Premier knifes - these are my first japanese ones - yes, I went into a store and was hooked by the looks. In the meantime I learned a lot more about steels, claddings, sharpening, etc. So it was a good buy since it got me into the world of japanese knives.

The defect:
Upon closer inspection, I see that 3 of the KAI Shun Premier knives I bought, have a slight tsuchime hammering done on the VG-Max core, as opposed to the damascus cladding where it belongs.
Not only is the slight tsuchime done on the core, but it is also done very close to the edge.

Why I care:
The hammering behaves like a dent, it reduces the material depth where it was done. Over time, as the knifes are sharpened, the knife's edge will eventually move to this tsuchime created dent and make that part will be even more prone to chipping.

There are numerous reports of Shun knifes being prone to chipping. Actually, cutting an Apple caused a slight chip on one of the knifes that I needed to repair by sharpening (which worked and was a great experience...). But honestly, on a product that is already very delicate I believe that hammering on the core close to the edge is a defect.

I look forward to your thoughts.
Am I right with my reasoning? Am I being too picky?
Has tsuchime lost nothing dear a core, or is this not a black and white answer?

What Shun says
I contacted Shun in Germany, sent them a detailed description and many pictures. They decline to position themselves clearly. Even though I explained the problem very clearly in my POV, the lady on the phone told me that tsuchime on the damascus cladding does not represent damage to the knife.... gee... that's not what I am complaining. They seem to want to buy time and NOT give a clear reply if this is a defect or not. I am very disappointed.

Best,
Mark

PS: I will try to post pictures once I understand how to do so here.

Here a few pics shun defects
 
Last edited:
AM-JKLVVrQ2srZIGHfjeHsZB_arbFhlaWUR38u4nj4WGsFBXIsJKaJ83XbmA0XZ9PfnWlnMSt9VdPxwenQiFIi18r8j_eDVyel4owITNXZEKvHkejVv7kp0d5Ddgh_YnzY5QzG17kG_S4q69OJzpUSyqLbBk=w2912-h2184-no


AM-JKLWeQb2W-XjD3rc0kzGGZ5Qbn_XfPZj1wsC1Gri5-o31SvNP9r24BbsmglbecgWIESiy2TMjRYEhBr_UtezY-mAwP9H1rEExoss_B3YCo3zqLXmYp6J0e1ZoVJOYZ6vvr9cibFHDHUlJwn7oQt6vmtmo=w2912-h2184-no


AM-JKLULG_p4-gmjylhCte-6P9JlSS8vUb9W-28DbkdZo0g90n8H4SICI5x9LSElGp3TCGzQRmqHKjwDsb8iIyLgyj1qgbpWizO0zjwkWg5l5L_JgT0WBZzkaSuDNZdBZrwOug1UXtu7uPNi_5HCkBn2Rq9C=w2912-h2184-no


AM-JKLUw5YUtgMKu7qSzSLFMzLrKD0s3jFP64lzWA6W7BHoHHSlC7O3IOghlSbmhhGWSAL8KZ05f4vVVyyQIOMxl6kkCSYGEv1B0DLFQcsC-ulGnYjLeUAoDENM-RVZyRBXBTBte6qWRfcKHwzjL-iwRP69U=w2912-h2184-no


AM-JKLXbUwn8p5aHwZfpck843nK8mQGEW5XCFD22MAkswwSvfXnPlZKeNM6uwUr-ucVuj04NBLfA2KEHt92B-6hcmkVPliVbyNNFxVgZi85hke3wZMoPSS-0zjlT0w58Ho2PQu3Mf4QZbCgcRSAjfpB5Fzky=w2912-h2184-no


AM-JKLWow2F_OMuv9XHwdnIwEJXzHUkdYEO98WyggMWvBBnjTZXo-Y1IxJiB3TsKeDh5tcB-0LqrG56hWyHxhZXpuV6zdcr4_F0H4b2rtktOastfkB3jD5UwQEF_LcQlIVI-luYZxOe9IegScCZvPZ9MKo0S=w2912-h2184-no
 
Welcome maolimu,

There is a kitchen knife area on the forums where you might get more replies from and can also read up more on related posts.

That being said, I own many shuns and have their lower to higher end knives. Initially, their edges out the box tend to be a little brittle. I might be mistaken, but I think their VG10 Damascus is ran a little higher hardness to improve edge retention at the cost of toughness. I've purchased many many used shuns here and on Fleabay, and almost all if them had chipping, missing tip, etc.

On the plus side, their VG10 Damascus is extremely easy to sharpen and takes a wicked edge super fast. I noticed performance seems to increase with more use. Thankfully due to cutting methods with kitchen knives, small chips generally dont hamper your cutting tasks.

I have a Kaji with similar pattern to the one you pictured and let me tell you, it will take you AWHILE before you sharpen to that point, especially if you own alot of other knives to use for THE RIGHT TASK. The kaji is also in SG2 so that might be why as well.

My thoughts, thanks for reading.
 
A lot of the pictures I found online have the same marks near the edge.
I believe the hammering is done when the knives are still in their rough-ground state, and the subsequent grinding and polishing ends up removing most of the marks that'd be close to the edge.
I don't know if I'd consider it a defect, but if you don't like it, take it up with KAI.

As far as their propensity to chip, they're very thin and very hard, so yes, they chip. But a lot of that is because people who are used to thick, soft Western-style chef's knives use them for things they shouldn't, like bashing through joints while butchering a chicken.
 
I wouldn't pay full new price for one with such marks near the edge, but used and cheap I would
 
I think the question of "defect" could be arguable both ways. And I don't see the low position tsuchime dimples affecting the knife's use, or even sharpening for many many years, if that. But I do not think this is the norm. If you are dissatisfied, as I would be with a new purchase, you should absolutely get these knives exchanged or return/refunded. Honestly, Made in Japan Tsuchime VG10 damascus clad knives are a dime a dozen. You shouldn't have to settle for less than what you want.
 
Thanks all for the replies!

KAI customer support was not very supportive, just claiming all is fine with the knifes.

The shop where I bought immediately took them back and refunded.

After this experience I will reconsider if Shun is the brand I want to buy from.
 
Being that the Tim Mälzer Serie is especially expensive, this is very disappointing. I am very happy with my Kai Shun Classic knives (a Santoku and a Cai Dao), thay stand the test of time, use, and sharpening. KAI tempers VG10 at 62 HRC (the core) which is fine with me (balance of edge holding / ease of sharpening is great). But, dropping the knife on the tip or forcing it through chicken joints (for example) will do damage. It's a classic trade off, so nothing much to comment here.
Speaking of hammering (and cladding) so near (or on) to the cutting edge, is a "Big No" in my book. It's not right and never was.
 
I would pay full price for that either. But I also wouldn't worry about it since all my kitchen knives are users. I probably would forget about the hammering dents after I used it a few times.
 
So "I went into a store and was hooked by the looks.." Looks are overrated. I would never choose anything based on looks.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top