Sicilian Cuteddu Ammanicatu Locking Mechanism

S

sp0nge86

Joined
Jul 27, 2022
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4
Hi all, I hope this is the right place for my question and that someone out there can help!

I'm looking for more information on the locking mechanism used in the traditional Sicilian 'Cuteddu Ammanicatu' fighting knife. It seems to have a lever on the back but I can't find any information on how it actually works, nor can I find an example of one of these knives in the UK to see it in action myself. Does anyone know anything about it? Or better yet have a cutaway image / diagram? Speculation from the knowledgeable is also welcome....

144691245_1328424637522130_4297541862686611681_n.jpg


Thanks in advance!
 
Short answer, not me.
I can't see a notch in the tang for a lock to engage, and I can't imagine how a lever down at the butt could operate a lock.

I hope you find out and let us know. Very handsome knife.
 
I can speculate for you, whether I'm knowledgeable or not though is also open to debate . . . . . ! Judging by the shape of the tang, it is not a 'forced notch' but a 'back' locking mechanism of some kind. I think that the protruding piece at the butt end of the knifes handle ( shaped like a musical note ! ) rotates around the visible pin there. I would further speculate that the 'musical note' shaped lever has a cam shape to it, when the lever is in one position the 'lock bar' is loose and free to pivot at the centre pin. . . . When the lever is engaged and the 'cam' pushes the lock bar up at the back , tension is applied and the blade locks ?
 
sp0nge86 said:
Hi all, I hope this is the right place for my question and that someone out there can help!

I'm looking for more information on the locking mechanism used in the traditional Sicilian 'Cuteddu Ammanicatu' fighting knife. It seems to have a lever on the back but I can't find any information on how it actually works, nor can I find an example of one of these knives in the UK to see it in action myself. Does anyone know anything about it? Or better yet have a cutaway image / diagram? Speculation from the knowledgeable is also welcome....

144691245_1328424637522130_4297541862686611681_n.jpg


Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Calling Âchillepattada Âchillepattada …

He has an interest it similar knives, and may have some clues:
Âchillepattada said:
These days Clemente is highly inspired :rolleyes:

51040030372_39a24dfe84_c.jpg


51040045042_6b287d7c33_c.jpg


Â
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the help so far all, definitely helping me to start formulating an idea of how it might work :) In a couple of other pictures it seems like it's in this 'locked' position when it's at full open or full close... I'm wondering if it's maybe blocking that sort of slip-joint back spring thing from moving whilst it's locked somehow, effectively locking the blade in either position?

144750943_1328424514188809_2487150290791764832_n.jpg
 
I have never seen one of those before! I can’t help with the lock but am looking forward to seeing the answer:)
 
sp0nge86 said:
Thanks for the help so far all, definitely helping me to start formulating an idea of how it might work :) In a couple of other pictures it seems like it's in this 'locked' position when it's at full open or full close... I'm wondering if it's maybe blocking that sort of slip-joint back spring thing from moving whilst it's locked somehow, effectively locking the blade in either position?

144750943_1328424514188809_2487150290791764832_n.jpg
Click to expand...
No need to formulate an idea of how it works anymore S sp0nge86 ! The photo of the knife in it's open and locked position confirms it for me ;-) No more speculation on my part, I'm positive it works exactly as I described in my first reply 🤓 The lever at the back operates as a cam, rotating it forces the lockbar to drop into the blades tang the like on any other backlock knife. I first wondered whether it was just a traditional 'slipjoint', or a 'forced notch' design, like many other similar knives of European origin, but unless the lever cam just stiffens the 'backspring up' it's not a slipjoint. No 'forced notch' knife I own or have worked on has ever had such a square notch in the tang either, they have more rounded off, even triangular designs to still enable the knife to fold by applying pressure to the blades spine. . . . The square notch is for a locking bar :-) I just took a close up photo of the tang shapes on a couple of Laguioles and Thiers couteau in my collection but cannot upload a photo ? I also had enlarged and cropped your first photo to more clearly show the tang shape, but cannot upload this either :rolleyes:😅
 
Ok I think I understand but let me just confirm with this terrible drawing... is this roughly what you're describing from a functional point of view? Once that cam/lever is rotated down the back bar has some freedom of movement, and then the blade can just be folded or unfolded freely - then when the lever is up, the protrusion(s) on the back bar sit cleanly in the notches on the blade, holding the blade in place?

PXL_20220728_111831748.jpg
 
sp0nge86 said:
Ok I think I understand but let me just confirm with this terrible drawing... is this roughly what you're describing from a functional point of view? Once that cam/lever is rotated down the back bar has some freedom of movement, and then the blade can just be folded or unfolded freely - then when the lever is up, the protrusion(s) on the back bar sit cleanly in the notches on the blade, holding the blade in place?

PXL_20220728_111831748.jpg
Click to expand...
Absolutely ! Your drawing is good, you understand the mechanics of it for sure. I very much doubt there is a 'closed notch' as in your drawing though. The knife in the photo you posted has a 'stovepipe' kick ( the square-ish protrusion on the tang in the open photo ) which should stop the blade from contacting the back spring / lock bar . . . When the blade and the lever are closed, I would expect there is enough tension from the lock bar pushing against the tang to keep the blade from accidental opening, just like on a standard lockback. Also just like on a lockback knife, I imagine you don't touch the lever to open the knife, just simply swing the blade and allow the spring /lock bar to flex and drop into place, you would only need to use the lever for closing the blade. Hope that makes sense ? I am intrigued by the design, I think I'll make one, I could do with a break from building slipjoints and standard lockbacks !
 
That actually does make a lot of sense, thanks a ton for all your help chopperknob and everyone else for their input! I'd love to see what you come up with if you do make something like this :)
 
Hi, I can't see the picture 🤷‍♂️
But I recognize the mecanism on Sponge86 drawing. it's made to prevent the blade from opening when the knife is closed
But without seeing the picture I can't say more, sorry :(

​

Â
 
Âchillepattada said:
Hi, I can't see the picture 🤷‍♂️
But I recognize the mecanism on Sponge86 drawing. it's made to prevent the blade from opening when the knife is closed
But without seeing the picture I can't say more, sorry :(

​

Â
Click to expand...
I put it up on my imgur. Did that work, Jean - Marc?
2rcQt0I.jpg
 
Thanks a lot Gary,
A beautiful knife.
I confirm the function of the mechanism I was talking about .
I think it's a slip joint.

I you need some makers'names I can find .
Usually the use facebook.

Â
 
This Manly folder has a similar lock -
jeAB6aq.jpg

The lever, when moved, pushes the back end of the spring upwards into the handle, which then causes the spring to pivot on the center pin and lift the lock bar out of the blade.


Fulcrum with lifting lever inside
D5Cw4uM.jpg


locked position
MFCh83f.jpg


unlocked position
2RNAQCC.jpg


unlocked with lock bar raised
Vmv1nI7.jpg
 
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