Silicon Carbide bench stones - Norton premium+economy vs Town/generic - quick review

BluntCut MetalWorks

BluntCut MetalWorks

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Messages
3,462
1. Norton 6 x 2 x 0.75" Economy 180/320
* Found the coarse side too hard and was not cutting. The 320 side quality is almost as good as the Premium's 320 side.

2. Norton 6 x 2 x 0.75" Premium 180/320
* Nice quality+uniform abrasive for both sides. Abrasive density is (felt) slightly higher than the Economy and Town.

3. Town 12 x 2.5 x 1.5 Generic 120/220 estimated grits
* Both sides cut fast and low-dish. Uniform abrasives and almost as good as Norton Premium.

Thanks for watching and comments.

[video=youtube_share;0oVO3-uGSLA]http://youtu.be/0oVO3-uGSLA[/video]
 
Just finished work on the clean-up phase of the WIP Elmax petty.

I spent 1 hr on the Town/generic stone to put on even scratches from 120 ->220 (estimated). 12x2.5 surface was really productive and over all abrasive uniformity was good. 120 & 220 scratches were within their range.

Used the Economy stone 320 grit side for 30 minutes on the left side of the blade. It was quite messy from excess loose abrasive & binder (let's label as mud). The finished scratches shown high deviation in depth. Could be the side-affect from excess mud, even though I had to clean & dump more oil all the time.

Spent 30 minutes scrubbed the left-side of the blade using the Premium stone 320 grit side. I sure felt like I got what I paid for. The finished scratches are some uniform and wasn't messy at all. Most oily-mud stuck to the blade, which can easily wipe clean. Well, I spent another 20 minutes to clean up the left-side using this Premium 320.

For this WIP phase, I am doing scratch reduction works progressing from low to high grits so cross-contamination won't affect me. But if I need a clean 320, well that won't be easy, since I store these oil-stone in zip-loc bags, therefore grit cross-contaminated.

Question for those using combo grits oil-stone - how do you keep/avoid/work-around cross contamination?
 
I wrap mine in a sheet of paper and (in the case of the Norton Premium) put it back in the cardboard box it came with. When I'm done with either side of the stone I put a last drop or two on the stone, work it in with a finger tip till it floats all the slurry, and just wipe it off with a paper towel. Any paper fibers or grit left over will be floated off the surface next use as I start off by working a few drops of oil into the stone.
 
Interesting work. I like the way you write. It's thoughtful and very easy to understand.

When it's time for me to buy one of these stones (it's probably time to buy one of these stones) I'll grab the premium model. I hate excess mud, and it sounds like the premium stone would be a good buy for me.
 
HeavyHanded said:
I wrap mine in a sheet of paper and (in the case of the Norton Premium) put it back in the cardboard box it came with. When I'm done with either side of the stone I put a last drop or two on the stone, work it in with a finger tip till it floats all the slurry, and just wipe it off with a paper towel. Any paper fibers or grit left over will be floated off the surface next use as I start off by working a few drops of oil into the stone.
Click to expand...

Thanks HeavyHanded :thumbup: I will copy your approach.

When time to replace my Premium, I will get a Norton 8" Pike Crystolon. For 25% more $ (20 vs 16), I will get 16 cubic inches stone instead of 9.

For the same grit range - these SiC stones abrade metal much faster than my AlOx stones.
 
Some of my bench stones are mounted over an oil bath in a triangular prism arrangement. I slowly twirl the 3 stone prism in the bath until the surface of the stone to be cleaned is coated with USP mineral oil. I move that stone to the horizontal position and squeegee the oil/swarf off the stone with a rubber kitchen spatula. The mud goes back in the bath, and the heavy particles sink to the bottom where the rotating stones can't reach them.
For loose stones, I got a bunch of plastic shoe storage boxes. Each stone has its own box with the grit and type marked on the lid. I put mineral oil in an extra box and use it for cleaning loose stones. A turkey baster and an auto parts cleaning brush aid the process. The aforementioned squeegee also helps. When a stone is mostly cleaned, I stand it on edge over a rag or newspaper to finish draining. Then it goes back in its box. The boxes stack.
I use the loose stones on a giant vee jig that holds them up at a preselected angle. The stones are clean and dry enough to not contaminate the jig. The jig used on a double sheet of newspaper which I throw away with most of the grinding byproducts inside.
 
bluntcut said:
Thanks HeavyHanded :thumbup: I will copy your approach.

When time to replace my Premium, I will get a Norton 8" Pike Crystolon. For 25% more $ (20 vs 16), I will get 16 cubic inches stone instead of 9.

For the same grit range - these SiC stones abrade metal much faster than my AlOx stones.
Click to expand...


I should clarify - I do not have the "premium" stone, just the econo stone and a Norton/Pike Crystalon. Its too bad Norton doesn't sell wooden boxes for these stones.

Was able to compare the current crop to older USA made stones and cannot see any difference. I recently took a close look at all my vitreous stones, wasn't able to get any good contrast digital pics but optically I could see all kinds of differences. My ACE 8 dollar SiC stone seemed to have fewer binders in it but also larger particles overall and far more variation of sizes/side. The Econo stone had a much higher concentration of what I took to be binder but could just as easily be unconverted silica from the 'firing' process. All stones had small pieces of dark blue, pale green, and milky white 'glass' mixed in with the silicon carbide.

On a side note, I gave up on using graded SIC powders a while ago - it works OK, but I suspect the screening process knocks most of the sharp corners off the abrasive particles and they look very much like blocky jellybeans - perfect for polishing gems and other hard materials, maybe not so good for stropping. Contrast that with the very sharp edged flecks one gets from collecting the loose grit from grinding with a stone - the difference is night and day when stropping. The AlumOx compounds I've looked at were likewise very sharp edged crystal looking things.
 
tiguy7 said:
Some of my bench stones are mounted over an oil bath in a triangular prism arrangement. I slowly twirl the 3 stone prism in the bath until the surface of the stone to be cleaned is coated with USP mineral oil. I move that stone to the horizontal position and squeegee the oil/swarf off the stone with a rubber kitchen spatula. The mud goes back in the bath, and the heavy particles sink to the bottom where the rotating stones can't reach them.
For loose stones, I got a bunch of plastic shoe storage boxes. Each stone has its own box with the grit and type marked on the lid. I put mineral oil in an extra box and use it for cleaning loose stones. A turkey baster and an auto parts cleaning brush aid the process. The aforementioned squeegee also helps. When a stone is mostly cleaned, I stand it on edge over a rag or newspaper to finish draining. Then it goes back in its box. The boxes stack.
I use the loose stones on a giant vee jig that holds them up at a preselected angle. The stones are clean and dry enough to not contaminate the jig. The jig used on a double sheet of newspaper which I throw away with most of the grinding byproducts inside.
Click to expand...

Tiguy7, thanks much for helpful tips & configurations. Giving me an idea, perhaps setup a stone washing & storing tub where oil & mud to be reclaim. Oil for re-wash and mud for sand/polish/strop. Now, it's a matter of get organize or make more mess... :)
 
HeavyHanded said:
I should clarify - I do not have the "premium" stone, just the econo stone and a Norton/Pike Crystalon. Its too bad Norton doesn't sell wooden boxes for these stones.

Was able to compare the current crop to older USA made stones and cannot see any difference. I recently took a close look at all my vitreous stones, wasn't able to get any good contrast digital pics but optically I could see all kinds of differences. My ACE 8 dollar SiC stone seemed to have fewer binders in it but also larger particles overall and far more variation of sizes/side. The Econo stone had a much higher concentration of what I took to be binder but could just as easily be unconverted silica from the 'firing' process. All stones had small pieces of dark blue, pale green, and milky white 'glass' mixed in with the silicon carbide.

On a side note, I gave up on using graded SIC powders a while ago - it works OK, but I suspect the screening process knocks most of the sharp corners off the abrasive particles and they look very much like blocky jellybeans - perfect for polishing gems and other hard materials, maybe not so good for stropping. Contrast that with the very sharp edged flecks one gets from collecting the loose grit from grinding with a stone - the difference is night and day when stropping. The AlumOx compounds I've looked at were likewise very sharp edged crystal looking things.
Click to expand...

Figuring that Norton Pike Crystolon 8" is the larger version of the 6" Premium. I like the Premium feedback & how oil get drawn up - from the stone - on every stroke. And there no chunk nor lump get dis-lodge high pressure grinding. While the coarse side of the Economy stone is just too hard, it will cuts if I put 10 to 20 lbs of pressure. Maybe my Eco was over-baked.

Compare to my permanent-soaked AlOx (12") stones. Too much AlOx abrasives (90+% loose, not broken up) get dislodged from my AlOx stones during heavy grind, even though these AlOx stones are hard. Maybe my excess pressure got translated into dislodging instead of abrading or It could be that I get punish for using cheapo AlOx stones ;)
 
The mud in the bottom of my stone washing tub contains the combined grits of all the washed stones. So I don't think it would be too useful for stropping.
 
I have scraped this mud out of Norton's 313 model bottom trays in meat markets and use it for stropping which works. The grit is broken down so it's finer but I still think it's best used for coarse stropping. DM
 
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bluntcut said:
Figuring that Norton Pike Crystolon 8" is the larger version of the 6" Premium. I like the Premium feedback & how oil get drawn up - from the stone - on every stroke. And there no chunk nor lump get dis-lodge high pressure grinding. While the coarse side of the Economy stone is just too hard, it will cuts if I put 10 to 20 lbs of pressure. Maybe my Eco was over-baked.

Compare to my permanent-soaked AlOx (12") stones. Too much AlOx abrasives (90+% loose, not broken up) get dislodged from my AlOx stones during heavy grind, even though these AlOx stones are hard. Maybe my excess pressure got translated into dislodging instead of abrading or It could be that I get punish for using cheapo AlOx stones ;)
Click to expand...

The Norton India stone is extremely tough compared to other AulmOx vitreous stones - night and day. It took considerable effort to cleanly radius one long side for doing recurve edges, and that with a coarse SiC stone and loose SiC grit. Not as tough as Spyderco ceramic, but plenty of patience needed. I cut one of my cheap ALumOx stones down lengthwise and rounded it over into a canoe stone (for sharpening bigger cutters etc on the go). It was like a lump of soap compared to the Norton India.
 
HeavyHanded said:
The Norton India stone is extremely tough compared to other AulmOx vitreous stones - night and day. It took considerable effort to cleanly radius one long side for doing recurve edges, and that with a coarse SiC stone and loose SiC grit. Not as tough as Spyderco ceramic, but plenty of patience needed. I cut one of my cheap ALumOx stones down lengthwise and rounded it over into a canoe stone (for sharpening bigger cutters etc on the go). It was like a lump of soap compared to the Norton India.
Click to expand...

Thanks HeavyHanded! Excellent info to know. Large sharp AlOx abrasive tightly embeded in binder would definitely work well for my heavy-grinding. I'll evaluate a Norton India when chances arrive.
 
HH, I'm glad you mention these workings and shaping you did on Norton's fine India IB-8 stone. Because I've been thinking that my same stone just doesn't let go of it's grains during sharpening. Thus, it must have some strong binders in it. The orange one. Different from these stones used in the evaluation. Hence, this really helps it last. So, these AlumOx stones are different from the orange one and has different binders. Which, speaks of different price levels for these stones. DM
 
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