Silly lanksy question

P

Pvt.snoballz

Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
529
I just ordered the PRO kit and was wondering if this is something worthy of putting a nice edge on my Scrapper 5, im probably overthinking it and it probably will do just fine but i wanted to ask the people that actually know what theyre talking about.

Thanks guys :)
 
As long as it can handle a blade of that size it should work but little stones + big blade = long time.
 
one suggestion on long blades...

buy an extra clamp for on down the blade... make sharpening quicker... basically you'll end up with two clamps on the blade and just move the rods.

I haven't got to do that yet... don't get my used lansky (bought via exchange here on bladeforums) until tomorrow, but I was doing research and saw an old post with that idea. The clamps are inexpensive, and for a 9 inch blade, probably a must.
 
jungman said:
one suggestion on long blades...

buy an extra clamp for on down the blade... make sharpening quicker... basically you'll end up with two clamps on the blade and just move the rods.

I haven't got to do that yet... don't get my used lansky (bought via exchange here on bladeforums) until tomorrow, but I was doing research and saw an old post with that idea. The clamps are inexpensive, and for a 9 inch blade, probably a must.
Click to expand...


You would end up with two different angles.
 
knifenut

intriguing... how so?

If you have a six inch blade and you put a clamp at inch two and use it to sharpen inches 1 through 3, and you take the same type of clamp and put it at inch 5 and use it to sharpen 4 through 6, assuming you use the same angle spot on the clamps, shouldn't the angle be the same, at least for the straight portion of the blade?

I'm not arguing (it'd be silly to argue with somebody named knifenut... 1) doesn't sound like it would end well :p 2) vastly more experienced folks are more likely to be right), I'd like to understand.

Thanks!
 
knifenut1013 said:
You would end up with two different angles.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't a Lansky always give you different angles along the entire working edge?** Granted, never as bad as it would with two clamps... but it's just the nature of the beast, no?

As for the OP's question...
My father used his Lansky set on a 5" blade for many years without any complaints; however, as I alluded to in the above, if you are on the quest for the worlds' finest edge, then a Lansky might not be the tool to use. If you just want a knife to continue cutting for a lifetime, then it's a hard product to beat.

** I'm no math wiz, but this should be true, right? The blade shape, if it continued, would not form a circle... and even if it did, then the clamp would have to be set in the dead center of the imaginary circle for it to maintain a perfect angle.
 
jungman said:
knifenut

intriguing... how so?

If you have a six inch blade and you put a clamp at inch two and use it to sharpen inches 1 through 3, and you take the same type of clamp and put it at inch 5 and use it to sharpen 4 through 6, assuming you use the same angle spot on the clamps, shouldn't the angle be the same, at least for the straight portion of the blade?

I'm not arguing (it'd be silly to argue with somebody named knifenut... 1) doesn't sound like it would end well :p 2) vastly more experienced folks are more likely to be right), I'd like to understand.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Because the system slides on a rod at one main point above the spine and if you move that point it changes how the hone contacts the edge over the entire length. Any guided system like the lansky or the DMT or even the edge pro don't really follow the natural curve of the edge it just cuts a perfect angle in a arcing pattern. Smaller blades you don't see it so much and the position of your clamp on larger blades will have a big effect on how your bevel turns out. Think of sharpening as a math equation.
 
knifenut1013 said:
Because the system slides on a rod at one main point above the spine and if you move that point it changes how the hone contacts the edge over the entire length. Any guided system like the lansky or the DMT or even the edge pro don't really follow the natural curve of the edge it just cuts a perfect angle in a arcing pattern. Smaller blades you don't see it so much and the position of your clamp on larger blades will have a big effect on how your bevel turns out. Think of sharpening as a math equation.
Click to expand...

so would this ruin the edge on my scrapper? :confused:
i dont wanna end up ruining this thing :(
 
knifenut

On edge pro's, people reposition the blade on the platform to make up for the arc movement you are talking about.

How is that really different from repositioning the lansky guide?

And if you reposition the lansky rod guide, how is that different from using two of them, assuming you are anal about the positioning of both? How far the spine is into the clamp/platform, etc... pretty much what you have with any guided system (be it warthog multisharp, dmt aligner, lansky, gatco, edge pro or wicked edge)....

Also, since the effect of the arc gets more noticeable the farther you are away from noon, wouldn't having more noons be preferable? Which is the reason folks reposition long knives on edge pros.

I'm probably missing some piece of the puzzle yet.

also... if you are answering at 10 pm and 2 am, and I'm responding at 4:30... are we all insomniacs around here?
 
Snoballz, the Lansky is slow but very effective. It will get a knife as sharp as it can be. Understand that the angles are fixed with the Lansky so you will need to grind your bevels to one of the set angles using the coarse stone. After that, things should progress smoothly. Moving the clamp along the blade as you work will do just fine for long blades. There are faster solutions but the faster ones don't do any better job overall.
 
Pvt.snoballz said:
so would this ruin the edge on my scrapper? :confused:
i dont wanna end up ruining this thing :(
Click to expand...
It's not going to ruin the edge. Anything but, really... but you will never get, say, a 20° angle across the entire edge. It may be 23° right in front of the clamp and 18° out towards the tip. If you are seeking that level of perfection, it won't come from a kit and it won't come without a lifetime of mastery. :p

Here, take a look at this quick graph I worked up...
b101.gif

Assuming you have centered the clamp on the knife, you will find that the edge just in front of it will be ever such the slightest bit more "blunt" than it will be the further down the blade you get. This is because the further away you get from the axis point, the more shallow the angle will be.

Think of it more like this...
b102.gif

The further away you get, the shallower the angle becomes. Knifenut mentioned that the effects would be less noticeable on smaller blades... this is true because you are making it less likely that you will have to move the stone further away from it's pivot.

I have a Lansky. I use it on some knives. I will continue to use it on some knives. It's foolproof sharpening, quick and easy...



Heck, you can use this knowledge to empower you! Know that if you ever need a sharper edge for what you are working on, work nearer to the handle. If you ever need a more durable edge for hard jobs, use the part of the edge directly in front of where you clamp down at.
 
Facion, Nice explanation with graphics.

Back to the two clamping positions:

In summery using two clamps, or re-clamping, is a good idea on a long knife. A 9" blade was mentioned. However, the best I can tell, a Scrapper 5 has a 5 1/4" blade with pretty good up sweep at the tip and re-clamping is probably not necessary on that knife.

S5BrnBrn.jpg


Saying it will give you two different angles, as Knifenut says, may be true on that knife, or at least not necessary, but without an explanation it is a bit misleading in general and more importantly shouldn't be a reason to discourage the use of two clamps on longer knives, or re-clamping along the blade. Especially since a 9" blade was mentioned.

The Lansky will give you multiple angles whether you re-clamp or use one position due to the arc of the rod on the pivot as shown by Fascion. With a long knife there will be less angular errors if you re-clamp, or use two clamps, then if you don't.

The errors of an arc along a section of blade two inches or so off the center are very small. Smaller then if you clamp in the middle of a 9" blade and let the arc go 4.5 inches or more from the center because you don't re-clamp. It would be even worse if you clamp near the handle and let the arc go 9" if it would even make it to the point.

Do the Trig. I have on the EP and posted it here before. It is based on the difference in length of the side of the triangle formed by the length of the arm when centered vs when the triangle formed when swung out on the arc as Fascion so nicely portrayed.

The errors are even smaller on an EP since the arm is longer making a larger radius on the arc, and you can reposition the blade to only use a small portion of the arc keeping the stone over the table.

One more point. You can also use this knowledge to empower you to keep the angle more constant if that is what you want. You can see in the first picture by Fascioin that as the stones swings around the pivot the angular error can be minimized by proper clamping to allow the upsweep of the point of the knife to work with you in keeping distance from the pivot to the edge more constant around to the tip. In that picture the angular error at the tip would be less then the error the same number of degrees in the arc toward the handle. It is also less at the tip then if you were to re-clamp again centering up near the tip. So, in this case you wouldn't want to re-clamp but rather let the arc continue around the tip. It depends on the knife, but many times you can use this to your advantage and don't need as much re-clamping in this area.

On the knife pictured I think I would clamp about 1" from the handle to get the least angular change along the full length of the blade without re-clamping and allowing for the arc of the tip.

Gary
 
I have a GATCO system. It is similar to the Lansky.

The longest blade I sharpen is my 10" chef. The GATCO does just fine without a second clamp and without reclamping and blending the sections. Clamp once near the middle and have at it.

Your Professional kit comes with the extra fine hone. If it is anything like the GATCO I would invest in the Super Sapphire hone and the extra coarse hones.

Good Luck.
 
Fascion said:
It's not going to ruin the edge. Anything but, really... but you will never get, say, a 20° angle across the entire edge. It may be 23° right in front of the clamp and 18° out towards the tip. If you are seeking that level of perfection, it won't come from a kit and it won't come without a lifetime of mastery. :p

Here, take a look at this quick graph I worked up...
b101.gif

Assuming you have centered the clamp on the knife, you will find that the edge just in front of it will be ever such the slightest bit more "blunt" than it will be the further down the blade you get. This is because the further away you get from the axis point, the more shallow the angle will be.

Think of it more like this...
b102.gif

The further away you get, the shallower the angle becomes. Knifenut mentioned that the effects would be less noticeable on smaller blades... this is true because you are making it less likely that you will have to move the stone further away from it's pivot.

I have a Lansky. I use it on some knives. I will continue to use it on some knives. It's foolproof sharpening, quick and easy...



Heck, you can use this knowledge to empower you! Know that if you ever need a sharper edge for what you are working on, work nearer to the handle. If you ever need a more durable edge for hard jobs, use the part of the edge directly in front of where you clamp down at.
Click to expand...

Very nice, your graph's help a lot with the explanation.

Gary, how is it misleading when its the truth? And to get the best/most even angel you want the clamp near the center of the blade. Also like I said before your not actually following the angle of the knife your just cutting a perfect arc.

Jungman, insomniacs? yeah :D
 
Guys, i cant say thank you enough.
thanks for taking the time to explain this all to me i really appreciate it, i feel much better about the lansky and i feel i have learned alot just by the information you guys posted :)

btw, David Brown makes some sweet sheaths for the S5's
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top