Simply blown away

O

oldscrimmer

Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
205
I’m relatively new to the forum, and though I truly enjoy reading everyone’s posts (that I have time for), I’m blown away by the hype. You guys are way over my head on a lot of the stuff. I’m an old codger who’s been around the knife and shooting world for 53 years or more. I’ve used handmade customs, over-the-counter junk, and many of the current knives you all talk of. I remember names like Collins, Hibben, Moran, Corby, Lile, D.E. Henry, Randall, Loveless, and over the counter bench made knives were in their infancy. The American Blade Magazine was the top shelf reading and topic of conversation at the Guild meetings….internet wasn’t happening yet!

I still find myself reaching for my old Buck and an Arkansas Sharpening stone when there’s meat to be put on the table. I do love some of the new innovations in blade design however and I’ve got several of the current designs I’ve been working with IE: Mcusta, Kershaw, CRKT, and Benchmade. I guess I’ve been outta touch for a while….steels I’ve never heard of, outlandish designs, serrations, and highly specialized blades….so many it boggles my old mind to think on them….sure makes my hockies hot to have one after reading you all’s talk.

One part of being old is you have more memories than you do dreams, and in reminiscing I remember the old knifemaker I used to work for some 33 years ago, grinding on a homemade belt sander (two headed) and polishing on a linen wheel and gray rouge. He graduated to a 100 ton punch press to preshape D2 blades, and used a pattern grinder for stock removal. Computers then took up a whole room, large at that. Now we have computer numerical controlled devices to do the grinding and can fit several in a large room. I did scrimshaw by hand; freehand drawn, freehand cut, inked and sealed. Now lasers do it. Wow, all that in less than 50 years!

Hope you young Bucks will educate an old man, and be patient if I seem ignorant! Please pardon this walk down memory lane for those who’ve not been there yet! BTW, I still prefer hand honing on an Arkansas novaculite stone….some things die hard!:thumbup:
 
"I did scrimshaw by hand; freehand drawn, freehand cut, inked and sealed. Now lasers do it. Wow, all that in less than 50 years!"

Do you find that some things have been ruined by tech? I tend to look at scrimshaw as cheap because most of the stuff I see is mass produced crap. If you remember the days when all scrimshaw was done by hand, I bet you have a different outlook.

It is not just scrimshaw but a bunch of things like this. Engraving to me always seems cheap and garrish. It is like they have taken the things that used to bespeak quality and time and effort and made them into hallmarks of junk.

I am not saying real scrimshaw or engraved knives are junk. I am just saying, most of the time, my first reaction to seeing knives like this is that they are some cheap mass produced knock off of the real deal.
 
oldscrimmer said:
One part of being old is you have more memories than you do dreams, and in reminiscing I remember the old knifemaker I used to work for some 33 years ago, grinding on a homemade belt sander (two headed) and polishing on a linen wheel and gray rouge. He graduated to a 100 ton punch press to preshape D2 blades, and used a pattern grinder for stock removal. Computers then took up a whole room, large at that. Now we have computer numerical controlled devices to do the grinding and can fit several in a large room. I did scrimshaw by hand; freehand drawn, freehand cut, inked and sealed. Now lasers do it. Wow, all that in less than 50 years!


Hope you young Bucks will educate an old man, and be patient if I seem ignorant!
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I don't know, seems like you have more to share with us, than we do with you. :D

Why don't you educate us youngin's?

Welcome and stay a while.
 
Welcome aboard. I'm old enough to remember those large rooms dedicated to huge computers. At that time my total knife collection consisted of a Swiss Army Knife and my trusty Buck 110. Proud to say that I still have both. Stick around, lots to learn and share here:)
 
Yup, kgriggs8, I have found that technology has ruined many of the artforms held dear to American heritage. I've done hundreds of hand drawn pieces of scrimshaw over the years, and found the same thing you did. People were comparing my art to the art done by a machine.....no comparison My Friend!

My art has been in books, written up in the American Blade Mag., mentioned in Gun Report magazine, and one of the issues of The Gun Digest (don't remember which year). I spent countless hours developing my own hand tools and techniques, poured over a piece of ivory until the wee hours getting the layout perfect. Only to be bested by a machine done in minutes. You're right, I don't much like looking at it either! Don't do it anymore except for friends!
 
You should definitely come over to the Traditional subforum, mate. Just read a few of jackknife's stories and I'm sure you'll feel right at home.
 
Welcome Oldscrimmer! If you do skip over to "Traditional" subforum, keep coming back here to chime in with some wisdom!
 
Welcome to Blade Forums from a fellow Arkansan!! If you are ever in the NW corner of the state and would like to stop by you are welcome in my shop!

I also appreciate sharpening on a good Arkansas stone (actually I would go from soft, to hard, to black), and could get a serious edge on those buck and case knives, BUT a lot of the new steels have some crazy wear resistance.

Diamond hones are not absolutely necessary for sharpening the high wear resistant steels IF you have LOTS of time!! :D

Diamond hones simply cut much faster with the high wear resistant steels. You can still finish up on your Arkansas Stones, but I would suggest trying a fine diamond hone.

Take care and enjoy BF!!

Tom
 
oldscrimmer said:
Yup, kgriggs8, I have found that technology has ruined many of the artforms held dear to American heritage. I've done hundreds of hand drawn pieces of scrimshaw over the years, and found the same thing you did. People were comparing my art to the art done by a machine.....no comparison My Friend!

My art has been in books, written up in the American Blade Mag., mentioned in Gun Report magazine, and one of the issues of The Gun Digest (don't remember which year). I spent countless hours developing my own hand tools and techniques, poured over a piece of ivory until the wee hours getting the layout perfect. Only to be bested by a machine done in minutes. You're right, I don't much like looking at it either! Don't do it anymore except for friends!
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It is a shame. I think most art forms should be left to the human hand. It is the flaws that make it perfect so to speak. It is not like we 'need' scrimshaw so why invent a machine to do an art form?

I am all for modern tech when it comes to factors that effect preformance. Closer tolerances and more consistant quality are good things. I just don't see the need to have a machine do what was meant to be art.
 
I'm with you on the technology thing, without it, progress would be slower. Technology is exciting, but some things are tradition, heritage, and customary. We should leave that alone and let technology make its growth in performance, making life better for our kids and grandkids. I'm amazed when I think on how much has happened in my adult life. I was born before the ball point pen was marketed in the US, now I'm sending you all this on a computer and within minutes the world can read it. Kinda humbling I think!
 
IUKE12 said:
Welcome aboard. I'm old enough to remember those large rooms dedicated to huge computers. At that time my total knife collection consisted of a Swiss Army Knife and my trusty Buck 110. Proud to say that I still have both. Stick around, lots to learn and share here:)
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So do I! and they still go out with me almost every day. I love all the new stuff that's out there, but it's sure nice to have the 'old friends' along when needed . . .

thx - cpr
 
oldscrimmer said:
I'm with you on the technology thing, without it, progress would be slower. Technology is exciting, but some things are tradition, heritage, and customary. We should leave that alone and let technology make its growth in performance, making life better for our kids and grandkids. I'm amazed when I think on how much has happened in my adult life. I was born before the ball point pen was marketed in the US, now I'm sending you all this on a computer and within minutes the world can read it. Kinda humbling I think!
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oldscrimmer, welcome to the forums.

My dad used to be a graphic artist, and a very talented one at that. He went to school for several years, went into business designing business card and stationery, painting signs, etc. Lasted until everything went to CAD. In less than two years, demand for my dad's work just dried up, and he went out of business.

He's not bitter about it, his philosophy is like what was stated before: progress is good, but unfortunately comes at the expense of tradition, and sometimes individual talent. My dad still draws and occasionally paints because he still loves doing it.

I also agree with kgriggs8 - if I ever have anything engraved, I'll pay extra and have it done by hand. Scrimshaw, same thing. There just isn't much character to machine made art, IMHO.

thx - cpr
 
Interesting that you all tend to agree about heritage and tradition, but there is still one thing I haven't mentioned about not doing scrimshaw anymore. You can call me "green" if you want, or even a wuss....it won't matter. One of the major reasons on the scrim was ivory poaching....I'm against it totally, and wouldn't touch a tool to a piece for the rest of my life if I thought an endangered specie had to die for me to have it! I've done alot of white micarta, and fossil ivory and it works well, so I have pretty much limited my art to those mediums.

The old knifemaker I worked for only used estate ivory he purchased or "papered" ivory of a legal nature, so I didn't have qualms about it at all. However, in later years "green" ivory started showing up in the market place.

Like your father's talents, the demand just isn't there anymore, so those of us who were able to contribute something years ago can rest assured ours will be remembered fondly by some and never seen by others. The artists still feel good about themselves, and that's worth alot!
 
Welcome to the forum.

Yep, life changes. Years ago when I worked for the Navy as a journalist and editor, I used to send out my text, layout and photos. The graphics people would convert the text into strips of type, then glue it to pasteboards. Photos were fit using a sizing wheel and if the text didn't fit the space we allotted, we got a phone call and had to do some strategic cutting until it did fit. Or, like the bed of Procrustes, we had to add more text until it fit. Then came the Macintosh and desktop publishing. I remember the last time I saw my graphics guy, he smiled smugly and said, "You'll be back. This desktop publishing crap is a flash in the pan." He's now dead and buried and desktop publishing rules the land.

The thing is, in the knife world we can have a bunch of fellows accuse knife manufacturers of hype (rightly so), swear they'll never buy one of 'em, then go out and buy the hybrid custom/production Sebenza for $475 and see it as a practical expense. And I'm not begrudging them one bit, no sir; but I think their underlying judgments are a little off. There are lots of good reasons for buying a Sebenza, like, "I want one." Or, "I like being able to take it out of my pocket and admire the looks and quality." But practicality is not something I'd put at the top of the list.

I was in a gun store one day and an old coot was lecturing a bunch of us youngin's about what he'd learned. He said, "Everyone's so controlled by marketing. Take these new shavers that are out there. Everyone's using two or three blades to shave with these days when any country bumpkin can tell you all you need is one. And then there's 'Plop, plop, fizz, fizz....' That one little jingle changed an entire generation from taking one Alka-Seltzer to taking two, when all they needed was one!"

He had something, I admit. My wife recently got me an expensive adjustable razor with four...count 'em...four blades, and I still can't shave that area between my lower right cheek and my right ear. Four blades, and I can't even find the single-bladed BIC made in Greece that's the best razor I've ever used. Can't find 'em anywhere and the other BICs are crap. So now I shave with four blades and do touch ups with an electric!

So, yeah, we are led like a bunch of sheep. We live in an age of prosperity where we can buy purt near anything we want, either immediately or saving up for awhile. But our forefathers often had just one straight knife and maybe one folder. My grandfather left me his Case folder that had been used quite a bit and was kept in good working order. It had been his only folding knife for years. (He was a machinist for the railroad and always had an oily rag close by. After using his manual lawn mower and yard implements, he always cleaned, oiled and maintained them.) I'm not advocating going back to those days, but we are awash in hype, sir. Yes we are.

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old-smithy.jpg

An old smithy shop.

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Welcome to BF.. I agree with others, it sounds like you have a lot of experience and I for one would be greatful to see some of your work, and to here some stories that go along with it. Definetely check out the traditional forum. A lot of good folks there who I'm sure would also like to see and hear about your experiences.
 
Welcome, Oldscrimmer. There are a few more of us old farts here. I can remember saving up for a $10.00 Robeson Bowie that was in the local hardware store. My dad wondered why I wanted a bowie knife. I blame TV. I still buy them, but I never got that Robeson. Had to settle for a $6.00 Solingen. Most folks on the forum are helpful, but we do get occasional wise guys. I look forward to reading your posts.
 
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