single blade improved muskrat??? help

M

muskrat man

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I picked up a schrade improved muskrat today. It has yellow plastic handles. It's a model 787 but it's a single blade? The blade has "IMPROVED MUSKRAT KNIFE" etched on the blade. It has very nice file work down the backspring, blade, and liners which I belive was factory done because it was done before the handles were installed. below is a pic of it with a 787 two blade for comparison. the single blade is thinner has a single back spring and never had another blade. the handle design is identical to the two blade. any help guys, this is a new one to me.





In this pic you can see how much thinner the knife is than a standard 2 blade 787 muskrat, also, note the filework on backspring and liners.


doin the best I can with what I got.

thanks MM
 
The handles are 1950's era when they still used some variant of celluloid...note the deep glossy color....but the blade is newer.

I would guess a "lunch box" knife or a knife made up of parts that came out of the factory when it closed. If the latter is true, then we will likely see a lot mor stuff like this.
 
The handle appears to be celluloid (older) and the blade looks to be from a 77OT muskrat, or simlar (blade does not look like it belongs in a handle that old, blade looks to be from late 60's early 70's).

Phil, Im not sure Herman Williams would do work on a knife like that?
 
I bought this knife off of a guy that said he has had it for quite a while. the blade is stamped 787. has the same handle design as my 2 blade muskrat. everything is the same except handle material, # of blades and the file work
 
LT has not weighed in on this question and I hope bringing this to the top will prompt him to do so. I find this an interesting knife. Does not mean I think it valuable or highly collectible, but intriquing, bring up such questions as 'why' and 'who'.

A 'lunchbox knife'? OK, very possible. But I still think Herman Williams is a possibility too. Which would make this an even more interesting piece.
Mr. Williams started collecting only in 1978 and decided then to start doing filework and such on older knives, using parts from here and there. His relationship with Schrade began shortly after, and he hones his skills, learning from the best.

MM, would you please humor me and look inside the knife, with the blade open, at the liners, inside, near the top. Any engraving? That is the accepted place for a knife repairman or customizer to mark his work.

Here is a pic of part of the Mr. Williams collection: Texas toothpicks by Imperial. There are the old, quality, solid handle and bolster type. Beautiful, huh? This has nothing to do with the question above, I just wanted to show these off. I understand Mr. Williams gave many knives to Schrade to become part of their factory collection. Is that where these went, I wonder? Does Smokey now own them? Will they peddle them off piecemeal? Sorry to get us off subject, but I think these are cool.

Phil

ps... my last post this morning, I promise.
Imperialtoothpicks.jpg
 
Larry... no no, those ain't mine. They were part of Herman's collection that I found in a book. Not to say I wouldn't want to own them..

Phil
 
I do not believe it is a Williams, I have seen enough of his work and know him however I could be wrong. I do believe it was done at the factory by someone who wanted a knife made this way and made it for himself. Not as tough as it looks. Just do not add the center liner or second spring put it together and run the machine that applied the filework to the back spring. shorten the rivets. and bingo this looks like how somebody spent a lunch hour. Still a nice example of the odd stuff you will find. This fellow wanted those handles the file work a really nice thin knife with a turkish clip. It is a nice idea, pretty, great in the pocket ( thin ) super handles and filework. Who knows, perhapes he showed it to someone as a possible new pattern or it could have come from the R&D research and development dept who always was turning out stuff like this for possible future styles. The plain Schrade tang stamp and handle material make it look like look like late 70tys or 80tys. This handle material was still being used then. Also while this looks like celluloid and is obviously not the less translucent plastic seen later they did in fact make a plastic during this period which was very difficult to distinguish from the original YELLOW Cellulod. It was used on some of the yellow fish knives. It looks like the tang has the number on a same side stamp. Which further seems to confirm this. I agree with the owner that this knife has never been apart and was made this way at the factory. Good find the kind of stuff I am always searching for. LT PS Phil one hint on a Williams knife which once you have seen, becomes pretty distinct the filework would I believe been at least on the backblade and would have matched the backspring he often did inside the liners as well. This knife seems only to have the commercial style work. Also the etch is sloppy Williams would have never used a blade unless the etch was perfect. I also do not see him using a turkish clip etched at all he would have used a plain blade highly polished ( like in your pic). Nope everything looks wrong for it to have been him you can almost look at one of his and hear him talking. PPS alot of the workers would often practice filework and assembly often for something special to carry. Any way that is my opinion.
 
Tex,
I checked but see no engraving. there is filework about1/2" down the spine of the blade, the full length of both liners (both top and bottom) and the full length of the spine. It is an interesting knife indeed. A nice collection of toothpicks there too.
 
above is a pic of the backspring showing the filework and how much thinner it is than a conventional 2 blade 787
 
Well alrighty then, that is not commercial file work and it is not Williams. It seems to be made exactly as I thought. who ever made it did the filework. It looks like I said a factory worker who did something personal. Whoever did it was learning. Nice knife LT
 
thanks for your time LT. So basically this is a one of a kind knife, or at least close to it?
thanks again
MM
 
Good post. BR Levine likes to write that you must handle lots and lots of knives to know knives. I have done that, but have never actually held and examined a Willaims knife. I latched onto the Williams' theory and held onto it, just as an Ebay buyer might WANT to beleive in something he is bidding on auction for. A lesson learned for me.

It is an interesting, intriguing knife, MM. A good find, and yep, it very well could be a one of kind item. We also learn about knives by discussion and debate, so your post about this knife was educational as well. For that I thank you.

Phil
 
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