Single guard or double?

i4Marc

i4Marc

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Oct 19, 2011
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I'm going to ask the question here and also in C&H so I can get a variety of perspectives.

When designing a large Bowie or chopper, do you favor a single guard or double guard......and why?

I watched Jason's video here:
He is not a fan of the double guard on a chopper and has a valid reason.

I admire Jason's work and experience but others have their own opinions and probably have good points to make as well. I have my own ideas and trust my instincts but I do not have the years of experience using knives in the real world that some do so I am open to considering different points of view.

I do not want to open the can of worms known as "what is the difference between a chopper and a bowie?" but if you feel there is a difference and that helps make the case one way or the other for single or double guard I'm interested in hearing it. A reason might be something like "a chopper is a utilitarian knife and not having a guard on top allows multiple grip positions for different types of work. A Bowie is a weapon and the top guard is necessary to keep an opponent's blade from sliding up the spine and removing the fingers from your hand".

Thoughts?
 
Aren’t today’s Bowie knives practically just collector items?

since I don’t make either Knife I guess I don’t really have an opinion either way :D

but if I had to give one I would say single on a chopper and double on a Bowie.
 
The original Bowie knife did not have a guard, it was basically a large butcher knife. A Rezin Bowie does not have a guard.
English Bowies popularized the coffin handle and double guard I believe.

Bowies are not choppers, they are fighters and guards were put on for catching and blocking blades
 
Been a while fellas, but I figure this is as good a post as any to jump into :D

First I may be off here but I think what Marc is asking and what Jason is getting at is in regards to a user knife. So in that context I'll talk about camp knives, hunting knives and survival knives.

I have taken classes and hold an advanced cert in survival from one of the discovery survival guys. I was taught to use a knife in a survival situation in more ways than I can remember. And I can say without a doubt that if you are in a situation where you need your camp chopper to perform multiple tasks, you absolutely do not want a double branch guard. I personally do not want a single branch guard either. Here is why; a lot of how you use a knife in a survival or even camp situation requires you put your thumb on the spine for leverage. You cannot do this with a double branch guard, saw teeth or a sharpened spine. Most of us have done this when sharpening a stick as a kid.

Some other uses could be a draw knife, batoning logs, carving utensils and so on. Having a guard that prevents you from using your thumb or even your shin to cut or sharpen things. You loose control as Jason demonstrates because you are limited to a "stone grip" as he calls it. So in conclusion I completely agree with what Jason is saying here.

Now on any other type of knife that is more for looks than for use, then its all fair game in my eyes. I think knives, daggers and swords with guards look beautiful and except for some cases like a gladius, they look silly without a guard. I'm with H here though, I don't think I've ever seen someone carry a knife with a double guard like that unless its at the renaissance festival or something like that.
 
Thanks guys. Augus7us is correct. I am talking about knives that are intended to be used. I also believe that for collector knives anything goes. Because I am limited in experience of actually using knives in camping or survival situations I am relying on the experience and advice of those that are. Augus7us' remarks are exactly the kind of feedback I need.
 
I haven't done a ton of chopper/camp knives but have done both single and double guards. Aesthetically I like both.
Functionally speaking, a double guard is probably good on a fighter but otherwise probably not necessary.
I prefer guarded knives as opposed to no guard. I like the extra protection when I'm swinging a knife like a chopper. However a lot of great makers make them without and they look and function well.
Here's a couple of examples of what I've done:

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Now I’m confused... you asked about designing choppers and bowies....:)

if it’s outdoor knife use you want, there are too many styles, uses and opinions.

If you want real world practical outdoor use, I’ll take a 4” fixed blade with no guard. It’s more versatile.

when I spent a week in boulder Utah with Boulder Outdoor Survival school, we used a Mora triflex fixed blade knife. It has a built in fore finger grip

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I have a loveless chute knife. Double guard. It’s a useless knife outdoors IMO. And I defy anyone to practically argue against this.
 
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Here is the first video google spit out that shows a guy using the technique I'm talking about. You'll notice he has his thumb on the spine while sharpening his stick. The best thing you can do to understand how not doing this affects you is to take any decent sized knife and try to do this with the "stone grip". Assume it has a double guard if it does not. You notice that unless your the hulk the knife will want to twist your wrist. You just don't have the leverage as when you use your thumb.


Some other cool tasks that you can try with a double branch knife would be to whittle a spoon and make spring snare triggers and figure four dead drops. Make a bow drill and try carving the hole for the spindle in the fire board. I think you will find all these tasks much more difficult than with a knife that does not have a double branch guard. In all honesty that is why I took those classes in the first place. Cause making that stuff is fun :)

Robert, those are some fine looking cutting tools. I happily take that top one with me to a desert island!
 
HSC /// said:
Now I’m confused... you asked about designing choppers and bowies....:)

if it’s outdoor knife use you want, there are too many styles, uses and opinions.

If you want real world practical outdoor use, I’ll take a 4” fixed blade with no guard. It’s more versatile.

when I spent a week in boulder Utah with Boulder Outdoor Survival school, we used a Mora triflex fixed blade knife. It has a built in fore finger grip

I have a loveless chute knife. Double guard. It’s a useless knife outdoors IMO. And I defy anyone to practically argue against this.
Click to expand...

H, I bought two mora's after I took a kbar to my first class. The mora's hands down outperformed the kbar. Fantastic cheap utility knife.

Edit: To your point, I think Marc could have left off the bowie from his original post. Like you said I don't really know anyone that actually uses a bowie while hunting or camping, unless you don't know what you're doing, like when I showed up to my first survival class with a kbar :D
 
Ok, to clarify a bit, I am putting together a knife for a friend right now. It is a wide, 10" recurve blade. The blade is ready to have the guard and handle fitted. My original sketch for the guard was a double guard but upon further consideration I changed it to a single guard. The purpose of the knife would be to take with him while hiking in the woods behind his house or camping with his wife. He was a police officer and is now a firefighter but I do not think he has taken any survival type courses. This knife is what sparked the question in my mind. The information gleaned from this thread is not specifically for this knife though, but to add to my general knife wisdom.
 
One thing I’ve come to realize from requests from guys that want a camp knife to guys that actually camp a lot and field dress animals, the guys that are hobby campers tend to want a bigger knife. The guys that have been hunting and camping for years prefer a much smaller knife.
Sorry I don’t know much about guards, it just always humored me the difference between what size blade you think you want and what size blade you actually need.
 
Usually I design the knife for what the owner will be doing with it. In this particular case the knife will be a surprise. I don't know what he will do with it, or if he will ever do anything with it. I wanted the knife to be a big knife he could clear trails with, protect himself and his wife in a pinch and basically just have fun with it. If I were designing a task specific knife for survival or bushcraft I would have made something else.
 
i agree i would not want a guard on a chopper or a kitchen knife. i really like the look of the double guard, and being able to have the keeper strap on the spine side of the knife is a big asset when putting the knife back into the sheath.
 
I would guide your friend to a much shorter and less heavy blade. A wide 10" blade knife isn't a good choice for hiking around behind your house. I would take it down to 6-7" max and make it no more than 1.5" wide. Single guard or no guard. I am not a fan of recurve blades for survival and field knives as they are poor at most tasks beyond chopping branches off saplings.

If it were for me, I would make a knife with a 4" blade 1.25" wide and a no-guard handle. That is something that you can use and won't weigh you down and get in the way.
 
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