Single purpose brass/copper rivet setters? As in, no "dual" use..

SwissHeritageCo

SwissHeritageCo

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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So... I've been using solid brass "traditional" rivets on a new dangler design of mine to make it more bombproof, but also to be able to post through 3 thick layers of leather. The problem I'm running into is that my rivet setter is dual use, it has a hole on one side to set the washer and the shallow concave dome on the other side to peen the cut post. It seems every time I'm peening I'm marking up the leather because of the width of the setting tool itself. A fatal design flaw in my opinion.

I went searching for a rivet setting set where the functions would be separate, but all I'm seeing is different versions of dual use setters? Surely I'm not the only one who's run into this problem. I'm after a clean uniform look so I don't want to use a ball peen hammer, the little concave dome functions perfect for my uses.

These seem to be the only set designed properly - https://www.rmleathersupply.com/products/douglas-rivet-setter-domer?_pos=2&_sid=5b707b17f&_ss=r but I am not looking to spend $150 to be able simply set a rivet properly.

Am I missing something here? A technique perhaps? Any insight would be appreciated.
 
I gave up on the dual use setters a long time ago for the reasons you state as well as a few others. When I use those rivets now, I just clip off the end, set the flat outside on a small, dedicated anvil and use a small polished ball peen hammer to round it off. After you do it a few times it does not take long and I think it looks better than the tool ever did. I did grind off the doming portion and only use the setting part of the original tools. You can also use small deep sockets as a great setter.
Randy
 
I do much the same as Randy. I also have a small anvil and use a small ball peen hammer and tap the cut portion of the rivet until it's rounded and finished how I want it. I made a setter by drilling a hole in the end of a metal rod.
 
You can buy domed rivet setters from Tandy, Springfield, and probably other leather supply companies. You will still need to use the burr setting half of the tool you have, or use a socket like Randy suggested. You also might look at other setting tools. Like snap setters or rapid rivet setters. Some of them have a piece with a domed end that could be used.

O.B.
 
I too agree that the dual setter could be designed better and although I have several I don't use them. I seldom use this style of rivet anymore any ways but like Randy, when I do I use a ball peen hammer. Lil practice and it can be done a lot neater than with the setter. I do have an unmarked domer that I was given by a local saddle maker. He had a couple and gave me one. He couldn't remember where he bought them at. I didn't know old Bob (Douglas), was still making tools. many of his edgers have become collectors items and are in hot demand and still being used daily. He was one of the legendary pioneers that made Sheridan Wy a Mecca for leather working. Honestly I'd probably drop the buck fifty (I know its $150 not a buck fifty but buck fifty is kinda cowboyese for $150) if I was using a lot of these rivets. That looks like a really useful set.
 
Old Biker said:
You can buy domed rivet setters from Tandy, Springfield, and probably other leather supply companies. You will still need to use the burr setting half of the tool you have, or use a socket like Randy suggested. You also might look at other setting tools. Like snap setters or rapid rivet setters. Some of them have a piece with a domed end that could be used.

O.B.
Click to expand...
I actually have that single piece domed setter from tandy that came with a different set of setting tools I ordered, but the concave dome is too deep on it.

I don't believe it was intended for brass/copper rivets, because unless you keep your post long it doesnt really work. Might be good for just starting the peening.
 
Horsewright said:
I too agree that the dual setter could be designed better and although I have several I don't use them. I seldom use this style of rivet anymore any ways but like Randy, when I do I use a ball peen hammer. Lil practice and it can be done a lot neater than with the setter. I do have an unmarked domer that I was given by a local saddle maker. He had a couple and gave me one. He couldn't remember where he bought them at. I didn't know old Bob (Douglas), was still making tools. many of his edgers have become collectors items and are in hot demand and still being used daily. He was one of the legendary pioneers that made Sheridan Wy a Mecca for leather working. Honestly I'd probably drop the buck fifty (I know its $150 not a buck fifty but buck fifty is kinda cowboyese for $150) if I was using a lot of these rivets. That looks like a really useful set.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've gone off pop rivets. Even the real brass ones that I've been using. If I could get my hands on some of the old industrial ones you see on vintage military bags and frost river bags, it might be a different story.. they are much harder and less maluable, and probably require a much greater force to set.

Plus I'm looking to rivet through 3 layers of 8-9oz leather, the traditional washer style rivets just make sense.

Guess I'll have to grab a ball peen hammer, although I've never enjoyed that aesthetic.. or maybe I'll try polishing a small flatter face hammer like Corter and just hammer them completely flat as I prefer the way that looks.

I would have just used chicago screws for this use but I don't enjoy how they sit so proudly off of the leather.

Either way, great advice all around. Thanks for taking the time to shed some light fellas.
 
Just an FYI. I have used a piloted counterbore tool to recess chicago screws flush. I don't recall the exact sizing but one size handled both ends and took about a minute to set up and a few seconds to do. I will see if I can find it to get the sizing. If you are using veg tan, you can also tighten them down when the leather is wet and they sink it quite a lot.
Randy
 
To update this thread,

I ended up purchasing this rivet setting set just for the single purpose setter and domer - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BK1HNSDN?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details , which was the only single purpose set I could find that wasn't incredibly expensive.

As it turns out, the hole for the setter is too wide for regular sized brass rivets. So while it doesn't leave a mark, it doesn't set the washer perfectly flush which is bad news when doming the rivet as it starts to skew crookedly. The domer however, has a polished dish which leaves a nice finish. The included rivet cutters are worthless.

So I still have the problem of finding a single purpose setter that doesn't mark up the leather when setting the washer :(

This is the other setter that I'm currently using - https://www.amazon.com/Tandy-Leathe...efix=brass+rivet+sette,arts-crafts,162&sr=1-2
 
Copper rivets come in three sizes that I know of #8,#9 and #12. #8 is the largest diameter

From there you can get various lenghts. You must get a rivet setting set in the specific size

your are using, and they are designated by the 8,9 12 etc. #9 rivets are by far

the most common in use. If your rivet setter is for one of the sizes and your rivets are

a different size that could be your problem.
 
sheathmaker said:
Copper rivets come in three sizes that I know of #8,#9 and #12. #8 is the largest diameter

From there you can get various lenghts. You must get a rivet setting set in the specific size

your are using, and they are designated by the 8,9 12 etc. #9 rivets are by far

the most common in use. If your rivet setter is for one of the sizes and your rivets are

a different size that could be your problem.
Click to expand...

That was exactly the problem. Still wanted to give it a try because it was the only single purpose setting/peening tool I could find, and while it didn't leave marks in the leather it didnt set the washer properly :(

Looks like weaver makes a dual use setting tool where the edges are beveled so as not to mark up the leather. I will be trying it next.
 
I have a piston from a RAMSET Power actuated nailer that has an end with a slight concave dome. I use it as a big nail setter among other things but you have me thinking that it would be the perfect tool for this application. Might need to polish the hollow a bit. I will try it. Thought for sure I have more than one of these but I may have given a few away - they are so useful. If it proves to do the job and I can find another I'll send it to you. Meanwhile you might just be able tp buy a new part. Let me do a test
 
Old Biker said:
If you think a beveled edge on the duel use tool would help. Why not take a file or grinder to the one you have, and bevel it's edges? It would be cheaper than buy a new tool.

O.B.
Click to expand...
That's a good idea actually, although there isn't a lot of extra space outside of the hole and domer.. but even if I just file down that very sharp edge it would likely help the imprinting a lot. Already ordered the weaver though ;)

Personally, I don't like the look of ball peened rivets unless they are beaten flat with a polished flat faced hammer. I'm also not keen on the idea of how many strikes it would take to set a rivet like that. I was surprised at how nice of a finish the polished domer provided from that cheap single-purpose set, I might end up keeping it just for that one piece. There's also a chance those cheaper chinese dual-purpose setters which seat the washer/burr in from the side of the tool (instead of the bottom) would be less likely to mark up the leather.

All in all, I think Horsewright Horsewright 's advice was probably spot on. It's another case of "buy once cry once" as I should have just popped for the $150 set. As of now I'm $45 in and still without a perfect solution, but the Weaver heritage tool still has a chance to save the day! It arrives tomorrow.

RayseM RayseM as always, you are incredibly considerate - thank you! Hopefully this weaver tool will be my ideal solution, but even if it can just seat the burr without marking I'd be happy. Will update!
 
The final solution:

So the weaver heritage tool arrived:

1wv.jpg
2wv.jpg

I've already tested it out and it's perfect. I will be buying one for every sized brass rivet that I use, a seriously quality tool for roughly $18. The shape and finish of the domer itself is perfect in function and without need for a ball peen which is a real time saver. The domer also has a nice smoothly polished bowl which leaves a clean finish, it's exactly what I was after.

The beveled edges didn't leave a mark, but the depth of the domer pretty much assures it wouldn't touch anyway.. unlike the craft tool offerings. I do sometimes set rivets on leather that hasn't completely dried from the dye, and I'm not sure why it didn't dawn on me before to simply do this:

1wvv.jpg

At any rate, problem solved! For those still peening, I highly suggest you check out the Weaver tool as it leaves a perfectly uniform finish in about 4 strikes.

Thanks again for all of your time and help :)
 
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