Site feedback in regards to closing threads...

[rsngfrce]

It's kind of funny, because based on the posts I make in this specific forum, I feel I may come off as being a real trouble maker or something, and I don't think that could be farther from the truth...

First of all, let me be very CLEAR... I just wish to express MY PERSONAL OPINION on this subject, that is all. I am not saying I am right, I am not saying I am wrong. It is just my opinion and I have come to the point that I feel a need to a least express it.

Secondly, trust me when I say I feel I should be considered quite a rule-following, pro-moderator, anti-flamewar, polite, respect others opinons, etc, type of user. I have been a member at times of a very DIVERSE (in subject matter) number of forums, but eventually loose interest in them, usually because I grow tired of the intolerance some users find it necessary to show for the opinion of others (and I will just point out, the ONLY forum where I haven't really seen this happen is unfortunately not here, but XDA-developers, an Android phone forum, which for some reason doesn't seem to have this issue).

Now, I must first of all admit that I AM NOT hugely active on this site, so what I am seeing may be falsely influenced by that fact. What I have seen is that moderators are very active here... that DOES NOT bother me, in and of itself. As I explained above, I am in favor of control being maintained. BUT... in my admitted limited thread following, I have seen users attack the opinion's of other users, with no intervention of moderation. On the other hand, and I brought this up once before, but it just happened again, I found that a very interesting thread that I was following had been closed by a moderator because he/she decided it had gone off topic. I PERSONALLY find this a very gray area. And hey, it is NOT MY DECISION TO MAKE, I fully realize that. However, I do think I am at least entitled to express my personal opinion on matter. And I won't refer to the specific thread in question this time. I personally DON'T think it went off topic... it may have STRAYED a bit from the original topic, but it was still within the realm of the original topic, it was an active and interesting topic, user's were expressing opposing opinion's, I didn't find anyone being disrespectful in this thread and the next thing I know, a mod has closed it. (OK... let me REVISE that... having just looked back at the thread, I see towards the end it may have started getting some inappropriate and disrespectful posts, but shouldn't the appropriate users be dealt with rather than the thread itself being closed?)

Maybe I just have bad luck, but it seems that whenever I start following a thread here and get interested in it, the next thing I know, it is closed...

Thank you for the opportunity to express MY OPINION/FEEDBACK, which I do only in an honest desire to improve the site (which hopefully doesn't sound pretentious, it is meant to be sincere)

 

[rsngfrce]

I guess I should add, personally, I don't think "the baby should be thrown out with the bath water"... even if a thread could be considered to have a possibly contentious subject matter, MY PERSONAL OPINION is that there is no acceptable reason for one user to ATTACK another user based on an expressed opinion (DISAGREE, YES) and we would all benefit from that sort of user being eliminated, rather than having threads closed (which is what appears to ME to be happening, though I obviously don't know what is going on behind the scenes...). Thank you.

 

[Clem Kadiddlehopper]

Well I don't know what threads you are talking about? Folks come here thinking they have a right to free speech.
They DON'T this a privately owned site ( by SPARK) he makes the rules. And everyone is up to follow those rules.
Even the MODS.
There are all kinds of forums in this forum to post in and it helps to learn where to post about certain topics.
Sometimes it helps to read more and post less.
SPARK is a great guy and he like this site to be run how the majority want it to go. So if you have an idea and can get the majority to go with it?
Well rules can be changed - I've seen it happen.
As for the moderators here - they do a great job, especially with what they have to put up with.

Have a great day and I hope you enjoy the knives.

 

[Clem Kadiddlehopper]

It's kind of funny, because based on the posts I make in this specific forum, I feel I may come off as being a real trouble maker or something, and I don't think that could be farther from the truth...

First of all, let me be very CLEAR... I just wish to express MY PERSONAL OPINION on this subject, that is all. I am not saying I am right, I am not saying I am wrong. It is just my opinion and I have come to the point that I feel a need to a least express it.

Secondly, trust me when I say I feel I should be considered quite a rule-following, pro-moderator, anti-flamewar, polite, respect others opinons, etc, type of user. I have been a member at times of a very DIVERSE (in subject matter) number of forums, but eventually loose interest in them, usually because I grow tired of the intolerance some users find it necessary to show for the opinion of others (and I will just point out, the ONLY forum where I haven't really seen this happen is unfortunately not here, but XDA-developers, an Android phone forum, which for some reason doesn't seem to have this issue).

Now, I must first of all admit that I AM NOT hugely active on this site, so what I am seeing may be falsely influenced by that fact. What I have seen is that moderators are very active here... that DOES NOT bother me, in and of itself. As I explained above, I am in favor of control being maintained. BUT... in my admitted limited thread following, I have seen users attack the opinion's of other users, with no intervention of moderation. On the other hand, and I brought this up once before, but it just happened again, I found that a very interesting thread that I was following had been closed by a moderator because he/she decided it had gone off topic. I PERSONALLY find this a very gray area. And hey, it is NOT MY DECISION TO MAKE, I fully realize that. However, I do think I am at least entitled to express my personal opinion on matter. And I won't refer to the specific thread in question this time. I personally DON'T think it went off topic... it may have STRAYED a bit from the original topic, but it was still within the realm of the original topic, it was an active and interesting topic, user's were expressing opposing opinion's, I didn't find anyone being disrespectful in this thread and the next thing I know, a mod has closed it. (OK... let me REVISE that... having just looked back at the thread, I see towards the end it may have started getting some inappropriate and disrespectful posts, but shouldn't the appropriate users be dealt with rather than the thread itself being closed?)

Maybe I just have bad luck, but it seems that whenever I start following a thread here and get interested in it, the next thing I know, it is closed...

Thank you for the opportunity to express MY OPINION/FEEDBACK, which I do only in an honest desire to improve the site (which hopefully doesn't sound pretentious, it is meant to be sincere)

I guess I should add, personally, I don't think "the baby should be thrown out with the bath water"... even if a thread could be considered to have a possibly contentious subject matter, MY PERSONAL OPINION is that there is no acceptable reason for one user to ATTACK another user based on an expressed opinion (DISAGREE, YES) and we would all benefit from that sort of user being eliminated, rather than having threads closed (which is what appears to ME to be happening, though I obviously don't know what is going on behind the scenes...). Thank you.

Looks like RevDevil replied to this before......

It's not the opinions that were disagreeable, rather the lack of substance to support them. Some of the same people chime in with what amounts to sniping, a trolling commentary that adds nothing educational, no alternate point of view, nothing more than a way to incite others. In this particular case, people that may be new to the forums or knives in general read that stuff and are immediately put off. It also breeds dissension and animosity amongst folks, and for what? A $20 knife most people here would not necessarily be interested in?

Still hope you can enjoy the forums - there are some great folks here and a lot of great knives to see.

 

[rsngfrce]

Thanks for your reply! I'm not saying by any means that I don't enjoy the forums! I've just been disappointed unfortunately by getting interested in threads and then finding them closed. And as I say, I it may be bad luck on my part in the threads I happen to have become interested in, which can very possibly have skewed my view of things here!

But that being said, I HAVE noted a high degree of personal intolerance for the opinion of others from some (or what SEEMS TO ME a relatively large number of) users on this forum, which in my mind is just not acceptable. That is not what I started this thread about, so maybe what I started this thread about was actually incorrect, I must admit...

(And yes, RevDevil and I have a bit of history regarding this subject, when he very kindly reopened a thread he had closed, at my request, that later had to be closed again by another mod...)

 

[RevDevil]

I've tried to write a response to this, and I was not happy with what I came up with so to keep things simple...
It's a very complicated thing to deal with discussions that involve as many personalities as there are posts. In short, we intervene when the topics get too far off topic, insults begin, or when basic common sense flies out the window. You can't please everyone, so we do what we can the best we can. People express their thoughts on a subject and they are not always agreeable or clear to others, sometimes people express nothing but negativity (haters), some are overtly positive and not critical (fanboys), then you have the trolls. We only make edits when deal spotting takes place or the like. It's bes to leave the posts untouched so the rest of the visitors can see what was done to get things closed.

 

[rsngfrce]

I've tried to write a response to this, and I was not happy with what I came up with so to keep things simple...
It's a very complicated thing to deal with discussions that involve as many personalities as there are posts. In short, we intervene when the topics get too far off topic, insults begin, or when basic common sense flies out the window. You can't please everyone, so we do what we can the best we can. People express their thoughts on a subject and they are not always agreeable or clear to others, sometimes people express nothing but negativity (haters), some are overtly positive and not critical (fanboys), then you have the trolls. We only make edits when deal spotting takes place or the like. It's bes to leave the posts untouched so the rest of the visitors can see what was done to get things closed.

RevDevil, thanks for your reply! I wasn't really looking for a response directly from you here, since we seem to have developed a 'relationship'. However, you have proved your "Evil Super Moderator" title is justified by the hidden poke you took at me in that reply layful: (which we've already discussed by PM, though you didn't reply to my last PM, so as I expected, it probably did put you to sleep or totally lost you!). In any event, I assure you that I have NO desire to create "butt hurt" for you. My INTENTIONS in starting this thread were only the best, and as I stressed, only my opinion from the LIMITED view that I have. I have never been a moderator, but I believe I CAN understand the difficulties inherent in the position and I am sure it is IMPOSSIBLE to please everybody.

I can certainly SEE a point in leaving threads that have been closed untouched so others can see why they were closed. However, IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, and I am only one person, nobody died and left me in charge, I have no illusions of grandeur, but I take the time to express it only BECAUSE I CARE... MY OPINION (which is all I personally have) is that "thoughts that are not agreeable", "thoughts that are not clear to others", "thoughts that express nothing but hatred" (toward a TOPIC/ITEM OF DISCUSSION and NOT toward another USERS opinions of that TOPIC/ITEM OF DISCUSSION), "posts that are overtly positive and not critical (fanboys)"... while I agree that these sort of posts are not particularly useful/helpful/necessary, I don't PERSONALLY believe they justify the closing of a thread.

Trolls... trolls are COMPLETELY unacceptable, but I've personally seen very little of what I would call Trolling here. When I was new to this forum, I believe I was borderline trolled by a very experienced user here and I reported it, though nothing was done that I am aware of. However, I haven't noticed that user around for awhile, and it had been hard to avoid noticing him, so who knows...

Again, my opinion of the CARDINAL SIN (discounting "deal spotting" layful on forums is a user attacking ANOTHER USER for his/her opinion, rather than attacking (or better, disputing/debating) the opinion the user expressed itself. In my opinion, it is VERY CLEAR when this happens. If we wished to be lenient and a debate had been building between two users that then resulted in one user attacking the other USER, then PERHAPS an infraction would be in order. On the other hand, if someone pops into a thread out of the blue, with no prior history, and attacks a USER for the opinion that the user had expressed, I believe that should be grounds for an IMMEDIATE BAN, because it is just not acceptable and everyone SHOULD know this! It is COMMON internet (geez, THANKS for AUTO-SAVED CONTENT, or I would have just lost all of this up to this point) etiquette, if nothing else and I think people who don't understand this EVER WILL.

So, where all that leave ME PERSONALLY, is not really understanding the need to close these threads. Offending user's should be given infractions (probably with a post from a mod in the thread referencing the offending post as unacceptable) or BANNED (which should be reflected in the user's TITLE) and their posts remain, but the thread should remain open for the users who were NOT breaking the rules.

And please remember, I am taking the time to type all this NOT because I am a rabble-rousing anarchist, but because I care about the forum! :loyal:


(Oh damn... I'm sure you've heard the saying, "Opinions are like A**H***S, everybody has one". I have to admit that I probably SHOULD be in the Guinness Book of World Records, because I apparently have far more than one A**H***! But anyway, feeling the need to just express another of probably endless PERSONAL OPINIONS, since you touched on it, "going off topic" is a very tricky one, IMO. Thread highjacking is obvious I think. On the other hand, often times a user will start a thread on a certain semi-specific topic, but the replying users will end up focusing the discussion on something RELATED to that topic, but not actually the EXACT topic the OP intended, but I think this is natural and unavoidable... the important thing is that the OP generates a subject that users are interested in discussing. Also, sometimes during the course of a thread, it is very difficult NOT to sometimes go COMPLETELY off topic, due to something that was said in the thread. I HAVE DONE THIS PERSONALLY (recently, several posts between myself and another user in a thread, arising from the subject of the thread, but completely unrelated to the subject of thread)... I am also very aware that I am going off-topic and am at pains to keep it to a minimum for that reason, which was done in thread I noted, which then continued uninterrupted on the original topic as it should have. And I am not saying I received any mod warnings for this either, by the way.)

OK, I'll try to step down from my apparent god complex now... :jerkit: