Size verses Steel

E

ElCuchillo

BANNED
Joined
Oct 3, 2006
Messages
713
I've been trying some different things out as of late, and one of the things I've noticed is that the difference in CV and SS is amplified by the size of the blade. Take a Peanut for example. The blades are so thin and have such a keen edge, that it is pretty negligiable. However, when I carry my CV Soddie Jr., as I did today, I notice a BIG difference in performance as compared to my old SS Soddie Jr., or my SAKs. The edge really shines on a larger CV blade. I know this has been discussed before, but it's just an observation I am just coming across. Pit my sharpened SS Peanut against my CV Soddie, and they perform about the same. Pit my Vic Super Tinker or Wenger SI against said Soddie, and there is a very noticeable difference.
Anyone else ever notice this?
 
As much as I love my Vic's the steel on their blades never impressed me. They take an OK edge but are too soft to hold it for very long.
 
Generally speaking, a good carbon steel will preform better than a stainless. There is some very high end stainless out there, but even then its hard to beat carbon steel. I like my sak's, but I've sat at my kitchen table too many times slicing up cardboard and hemp rope testing out different pocket knives to not know even a humble Opinel or CV soddie will outcut a high end stainless blade, let alone my sak. But the sak is so darn handy, and the Wenger SI gets me through a normal day. If I need a real dedicated cutter, then I have my yella CV peanut in my pocket. If I go out in the woods and need to have a heavy duty dirty deeds knife, then I carry my carbon laminated mora or my dad's old home made bushwacker made from a carbon steel machete.

Will it make a difference in normal day to day use? Not usually. If my sak gets a bit dull, there's always the sharpener in my wallet, or the bottom of a coffee mug, or the top of a car window...

I guess the only thing to do is carry a sak, and back it up with a second knife in carbon. Doesn't a knife knut need a reason to carry a second knife?
 
jackknife said:
I guess the only thing to do is carry a sak, and back it up with a second knife in carbon. Doesn't a knife knut need a reason to carry a second knife?
Click to expand...

How can you call yourself a knife knut if you need a reason? :D
 
By performance do you mean edge holding, sharpness, and or cutting ability? I'm fairly sure your not talking about corrosion.
 
Jacknife- could you give some kind of list of the stainless steels you have tried. Also curious to see if the edges were similar to your sodbuster and opinel as a judge of steel vs edge.
 
CUTS LIKE A KRIS said:
Jacknife- could you give some kind of list of the stainless steels you have tried. Also curious to see if the edges were similar to your sodbuster and opinel as a judge of steel vs edge.
Click to expand...

Stainless; Buck, Case, Victorinox, Wenger, Puma junior, Gerber LST, Gerber LMF (1994), Schrade Uncle Henry line, Pacific Cutlery Company utility balisong about 1982ish, Boker, Al Mar, Camillus, Randall.

Carbon; Schrade Old Timer line, old carbon steel Puma, Boker, Case, Opinel, Mercator K55, old Bertram made Hen and Rooster, Old Bruckman, old Russell barlow from turn of the century.

I have made up to 100 cuts in hemp and after every 10 cuts try to cleanly slice newspaper.

The knives that did it were 2 out of three carbon steel. With the exeption of a 1967 era Buck stockman, few of the stainless knives made it past 50 cuts with the edge still razor sharp.

The stainless knives were okay to make it through a normal day, but a carbon blade will outcut a stainless one most times. Of interest, when I would pit a carbon blade against a stainless blade from the same company and same model knife, the carbon still was a longer lasting edge. I once took a nice stainless stag Boker stockman I had and tested it against an almost exact model stockman with carbon blades and rosewood handles. The stainless one lost. I once had two exact models Randall number 15 sheath knife. One carbon, one stainless. Again, the carbon one held a cutting edge a bit better. In very cold weather chopping through a sappling, if the stainless one hit a knot or twist in the wood grain, it had a tendancy to chip. I never had that problem with the carbon one. Best comparison was my stainless bone stag peanut vs my yellow handle CV peanut. At 75 cuts I could tell a difference. They had been even at 50 cuts through the hemp.

I carry a stainless sak as my edc pocket knife, just because I like the versitility of the Wenger SI or the Victorinox cadet 2. But my woods and camping knife is a carbon laminated Swedish mora or an old cut down carbon machete. And in spite of my begrudging them the moisture issue and light construction, an Opinel still finds its way into my pocket now and then.
 
Jackknife- thanks for the list. The reason I asked was to dee what kinds of stainless was used. Looks to me that they were not the high end- S30V, CPM154, VG-10... as Buck, Case, Gerber et al do not generally use high end steel. Not saying that your results are invalid but I am not that used to EDCing carbon, and would be surprised that they were outcut by some of the very wear resistant new steels. In my experience Carbon takes a faster edge but looses it faster, and is also usually ground thinner.

I am curious to try your method with what I have on hand- what thickness of Hemp did you use (I have 1" manilla downstairs)?
 
db said:
By performance do you mean edge holding, sharpness, and or cutting ability? I'm fairly sure your not talking about corrosion.
Click to expand...


No, Edge retention, sharpness, etc., db. As for the corrossion issue, another experiment I've been doing lately is carrying my CV Soddie jr. I figured, I never really EDCed a carbon blade for long, and never really knew how to maintain it. They always got rust spots on them, and I'd put them away. Well, I thought to myself "Self, you really need to learn how to do this." So I've taken whatever maintenance tips I've read on here, and figured I'd figure the rest out on my own. I never took care of a knife everyday, but have done so with my Soddie. A wipe here, a rinse there. Some oil in the joints occasionally, and I have not had a corrosion issue since. Plus, I enjoy taking care of my knife. Like I said, stainless is very low maintenance. CV needs a little more, and it's made me bond with my Soddie big time. I feel like a Samurai, who were always polishing or wiping their swords. My little yellow Katana is rust free and clean. A dark charcoal grey from the Patina, but rust free. Good thing, too, as it sees regular use for food stuff.
 
CUTS LIKE A KRIS said:
Jackknife- thanks for the list. The reason I asked was to dee what kinds of stainless was used. Looks to me that they were not the high end- S30V, CPM154, VG-10... as Buck, Case, Gerber et al do not generally use high end steel. Not saying that your results are invalid but I am not that used to EDCing carbon, and would be surprised that they were outcut by some of the very wear resistant new steels. In my experience Carbon takes a faster edge but looses it faster, and is also usually ground thinner.

I am curious to try your method with what I have on hand- what thickness of Hemp did you use (I have 1" manilla downstairs)?
Click to expand...

I've been experimenting with a little Buck Hartsook a friend gave me a year ago, that is made with S30V. While it holds an edge better than some of the other stainless knives I have, it's also noticeably harder to sharpen. One of the things I like about my sak's and carbon steel is that I can re-sharpen it in just a few minutes. I don't want a knife that I can't sharpen up quick with the little flat diamond hone in my wallet. I find in edc use, I'd rather have an easy to sharpen knife that holds a good edge for a decent while, rather than a knife that has very exellent edge holding, but is harder to touch up fast in the field, or where ever. The Pacific Cutlery balisong held an edge an outstanding degree, but it was a bear to sharpen. It went down the road when I went back to the old carbon stand-bys like Case soddies and peanuts in CV.

Each to thier own.
 
ElCuchillo said:
I feel like a Samurai, who were always polishing or wiping their swords. My little yellow Katana is rust free and clean.
Click to expand...

Actually if the seppa were fitted well and there was no play or slop in the tsuba and habaki, the swords fit into the wood sheath was almost water tight. If a samuri did not take his sword out of the sheath, he could walk right through a monsoon rain and the sheath system should keep out most mosture. The final fitting of the habaki to the sheath was critical. A wipe down with clove oil in the morning, and one at night would be all that was needed.:)

Of course he would need to take out the mekugi to dry and clean under the handle.
 
jackknife said:
Actually if the seppa were fitted well and there was no play or slop in the tsuba and habaki, the swords fit into the wood sheath was almost water tight. If a samuri did not take his sword out of the sheath, he could walk right through a monsoon rain and the sheath system should keep out most mosture.
Click to expand...
I'm frequently amazed at the level of craftsmanship the Japanese sword makers evidenced :thumbup:

On topic of this thread - that's an interesting observation you make concerning blade steel and geometry, ElCuchillo. I've had the same experience - my carbon steel knives are superior to the stainless I've owned. One exception in edge-holding is my Benchmade Griptilian in D2. It'll hold an edge really well. However, it's brittle and chips when I use to to throw strikes from a firesteel. I've never had a carbon steel blade chip when throwing sparks.
 
I don't think it's a simple matter of stainless vs. carbon steels. I prefer carbon steels in my slipjoints, but the quality for carbon steel varies as it does for stainless. I have three large stockman knives that I use on a regular basis. One is a my EDC, an German Eye Brand. The others are a Boker King Cutter and a Cold Steel (Camillus) model. All three knives have carbon steel blades. The best performer by far is the Cold Steel knife. It is the sharpest knife I own and it stays sharp a good long time. The Eye Brand is also good, but not nearly as good as the Cold Steel. It doesn't get as sharp and loses its edge faster than the CS. The Boker is a poor knife comparatively. While it is beautiful it does not get very sharp. Nor does it stay sharp very long.

My stainless Laguiole is also an excellent knife. I hope to find one in carbon steel someday, but until then this one will suffice. It is easy to sharpen, takes a screaming sharp edge, and keeps it well. It is a better performer than either Eye Brand or the Boker in spite of its stainless blade. OTOH it is much better than my SAK Deluxe Tinker. I know SAKs come with two good blades and although I appreciate the workmanlike qualities of SAKs, I never really get attached to them. They remain strictly tools to me. The steel in SAKs get really sharp but they don't stay sharp very long in my experience. Not really a problem since for most people an SAK is probably the only pocketknife they own and even though they dull pretty quickly they also sharpen up pretty quickly.

I think that the problem with most slipjoints, both carbon and stainless (especially stainless), is that most manufacturers use mystery steel for their blades. More often than not this mystery steel polishes up beautifully, but is lacking in performance. That's why Case Tru-Sharp knives don't measure up in real-world use to their CV offerings. But you don't hear as many complaints when a manufacturer uses a good, known quality steel (i.e., Queen with their D2 knives, Case with their ATS-34 Bose Limited Editions, my Laguiole with its Sandvik 12c27 blade).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top