size vs. weight for survival knife

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Will

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Jan 4, 2003
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What do you guys think the best comprimize is for a survival knife? Assusing this is something you are going to be packing with you on foot, if it is too big, you are less likely to bring it every time, and of course you don't want it to be a pain to carry either. Taking everything into conscideration (including cost) I settled on the CS SRK. At 8 oz, it is about half the weight of the KaBar and only an inch shorter. the KaBar is a better chopper, but from side-by-side comparisons I have read on rec.knives, the SRK does everything else better, from slicing to edge retaintion.

I am not sure I would want smaller fixed blade, like say 4-5" since one should always have a smaller folder 3-4" which would handle most cutting needs. A 6" fixed blade would be a better compliment to a folder I think. But I wonder if 6" is big enough? Would a KaBar, or sometihng even bigger and heavier like a Recon Scout or Camp Tramp be more suitable? It seems to me that although they may be better choppers, the added usefulness wouldn't be justified by the additional weight.

what are your thoughts?

Will
 
Misc thoughts.

1) See the thread on the Recon Scout failure now running in the gen'l blade discussion forum here on BF. Cs seems more famous for marketing the knives they buy and resell than for the inherent quality of their wares, but some speak very highly of CS knives.

2) I backpack with a Juice multitool, 4"-5" fixed blade, and folding Gerber saw. The fixed blade is either: a) Swamp Rat "Inficoot"; b) Bark River North Star; c) Fallkniven S-1; or d) Busse Badger Attack. All can baton through wood if needs be (None has the design problem mentioned in the thread on the Recon Scout failure.) . The saw efficiently "gets" the wood. The Juice (Some would have a SAK or just a multi-blade pocket knife.) takes care of delicate tasks. This combination of three tools weighs less than the large knives that some experienced outdoorsmen favor.

3) Another classic combo replaces the saw in my three-tool kit with a small axe.

4) All advice is biased. ;)
 
I'm a fan of the SRK, but as Thomas Linton reminded us, there's a thread on how one Cold Steel product (the RS) is possibly not your knife of choice in a harder situation.

I think if your survival needs are limited to camping, general outdoor use, quick emergencies, etc., the SRK will definitely do the job. I love mine.

If you're going into deep wilderness or find yourself really SOL, just be glad the SRK doesn't cost a whole lot. ;)
 
I'm still a fan of the Becker BK-7, which is their combat/utility blade. 7" with a wide flat grind. Good slicer, dicer and a fair chopper. The sheath, even though not great, is much better than CS sheaths and offers a pouch for lots of extra gear. Mine lives in a rucksack, because I became a believer in the 4-5" blade and really like the convex and scandi grinds.

My main blades of choice to carry when in the bush are the BRKT NorthStar, Mora 2000 and Frost Mora in that order. All with an approx. 4" blade and all are excellent survival and outdoorsmans knives.

I also carry a SAK w/saw and a T handled saw by Buck Knives.
 
what about a sog seal revolver?I dont have one,nor have i seen any post on them,but your getting two knives in one.It has a 4.75 blade,with a saw blade to. Just a thought
 
If you're out for any length of time at all, you'll need at least two knives. Any one knife, no matter the design or the material, will be a compromise. A big knife can't really do what a small can - and for sure visa versa.

So carry both. A decent size blade and a smaller blade.

Neck knife anyone? a substantial knife, but small enough for small work. The size of a Blackwood, or even a Polkowski. They're amazingly easy to carry.

And at least a Steelheart II at your side, back or pack..

But I must say, if it's down to one knife that is a little easier carry and too muck for neck, I usually rotate between a puukho, a Lightfoot Nightsrike and a Busse NO.
The last two are the biggest little knives, or littlest big knives I've ever used. The Lightfoot is amazing.
 
scalesandtails said:
what about a sog seal revolver?I dont have one,nor have i seen any post on them,but your getting two knives in one.It has a 4.75 blade,with a saw blade to. Just a thought
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Actually, that looks really good. wouldn't replace a fixed blade, but may replace say a SAK. About the same weight as one, but with a more useful blade and saw, and none of the useless (in a survival situation) tools like a corck screw, or bottle/can openers.

It looks a bit dangerous though, I would be afraid that if the lock fails somehow, the blade will come up right through my hand!
 
Will said:
What do you guys think the best comprimize is for a survival knife? ...packing with you on foot ...6" is big enough?
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Since you're packing it on foot, the "bang per ounce" ratio becomes more paramount than in car/canoe camping. For a lightweight package to handle wood working up to about 6" (more than big enough for fire/shelter needs) and other camping/surviving jobs, IMHO the best compromise is not a single knife. Rather it is a combo of a light fixed-blade knife coupled with a folding pruning saw. Selecting carefully based on weight, this combo can be lighter than a single knife that is big enough to chop.

The saw sections out soggy wood to get at dry core wood for firemaking and the fixed blade knife is used with a found-branch baton to split it out. This is a consideration here in the NW USA where our five-day forecast today is one word: "rain!" ;) I would recommend the knife blade be as close to seven (or more) inches long as your personal weight and "ease of carry" tolerance will allow. Especially if you carry a SAK or other 2.5"-4" folder in your pocket all the time to handle smaller slicing/carving chores. (Don't we all? ;) :D )

For a cheap & light fixed blade 7-incher, I recommend the Cold Steel Bushman. But you'll want to do SOMETHING with the handle to give it better grip and expect to put some work into the edge. The nice thing is that the handle has some storage space in it for a bit of firestarting, water procurement/purification, or other kit.

If you want a knife that's fine out of the box, IMHO Beckers, Swamp Rats, or Frost moras come to mind. Going up in price, you can check out similar-sized knives from Ericsson mora, Mora 2000, Ontario, Kabar, Becker, Cold Steel Carbon V, Ranger Knives, Swamp Rat, Fehrman, and Busse. For that matter, you could use a 6"-10" kitchen utility or chef's knife costing a buck or two (garage sale or thrift store) through Dexters & Chicagos to about $20 for Forschner fibrox handled knives.

For folding pruning saws, check out Corona ($15), Tashiro ($30), Silky 180 or 210 (about $50), or other Japanese style folding pruning saw you'd like.

All that said, when the "you only get one knife or tool" threads come up, I usually recommend an approximately 7-inch blade from Busse, Swamp Rat, or Becker for their more ultimate durability in unspecified whack 'n bang.
 
RokJok said:
Since you're packing it on foot, the "bang per ounce" ratio becomes more paramount than in car/canoe camping. For a lightweight package to handle wood working up to about 6" (more than big enough for fire/shelter needs) and other camping/surviving jobs, IMHO the best compromise is not a single knife. Rather it is a combo of a light fixed-blade knife coupled with a folding pruning saw. Selecting carefully based on weight, this combo can be lighter than a single knife that is big enough to chop.
Click to expand...

I certainly have more than one blade with me in the backcountry. If it is only one, like on ultralight hikes on developed trails, or climbing trips, it is a LM, not a fixed blade. Whenever I carry my SRK, I also have my LM Wave, and a locking folder 3-4" - Spyderco Endura. With this combo, I feel that a 4" fixed blade would overlap too much with the folder. I am not sure what the use would be for a really big fixed blade. Seems to me it would better to have a folding saw or machete or something. The Endura will handle almost all cutting needs, leaving hte SRK more for unconventional tasts, such as pounding into wood to split it, or possibly prying or digging. My thinking was that the 6" fixed blade is a perfect compliment to the 4" folder. The saw wouldn't replace the SRK, but saw+SRK is better than one larger bowie I think.

RokJok said:
For folding pruning saws, check out Corona ($15), Tashiro ($30), Silky 180 or 210 (about $50), or other Japanese style folding pruning saw you'd like.
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I am conscidering getting a folding saw to add to the suite of cutting tools. Remeber I have a small one on my LM for little things. A pocket chain saw would be the choice for big things, but I am unlikely to carry it ONLY for survival. http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_...5&PRODUCT<>prd_id=172229&bmUID=1106030752019: has been very well reviewed here: http://www.equipped.org/saws.htm I would only carry that along if I PLANNED to use it. As for folding pocket saws, something small and light might be nice, and I am thinking about getting one. I was considering the Gerber Exchange-A-Blade Sports Saw: http://www.rei.com/product/9811981.htm?vcat=REI_SSHP_CAMPING_TOC. Lighter weight still is the Spyderco Spydersaw, a bit smaller though, and twice the price. I also wondered how the Opinel saw compared in weight to these two. (I will check out the models you suggested.)

Will
 
The SOG SEAL Revolver is being used as an "addition" to some straight knives of the same weight and size. It really should not be considered a do all knife though (too small to chop), but the saw blade adds an extra edge for the user when trying to perform certain task around the camp like trap making, tent pegs or precision cuts.
The knife has been tested in many outdoor situations for the last couple years and the lock has never failed. Even if the lock pin fell out, the blade will not rotate down because of a "hidden stop" within the knife. The great part about the design, most people don't realize is that maybe 95% of work done with any knife results in a downward pressure (meaning if the blade in the handle moved, it would move down through the handle). All edges of the SOG Revolver are blunt on the downward side, meaning it would not cut your hand even if you had no lock or stops.
This knife has been well thought out, and it weighs about 8 ounces with kydex sheath.

How it works: http://www.sogknives.com/hrevolver.htm
Robbie Roberson ;)
 
I think that for what your looking for this might be the best bet,A two in one knive,Not having to carry knive and a saw,this would go great with a bigger knife as well.This would not cut,like a pruning saw,but would do what you want.And for around $53.00 Its not alot of money for what you get. This store has it for $53.00. http://www.ultout.com/sogspecialtyknives-knives.htm
 
I also agree with Robbie. I personally own one (the hunter version) it is absolutely the best saw I've ever used and the blade works as designed. It's light weight, slip it in your pack you won't even knows it's there.
Scott
 
I always had at least a six to seven inch blade like my TOPS Steel Eagle and a smaller blade like a folder or something.
 
For sawing limbs and trees up to 2 inches in diameter the large SAk's with saw are hard to beat when couting ounces and overall utility.

For chopping and spliting anything larger a 7 inch+ blade is a must when limbing and splitting. Saws fall very short when it comes to limbing as it takes 2-3 times longer than a large blade and don't even think about splitting wood with it.

For prying and spliting its hard to beat the steel performance and warranty of the Swamp Rats and Busse blades. I have bent 2 KBars and found the SRK too small for real chopping and prying open wood for the fire.

Saws have their place but are limited in their utility.

The pocket chain saws work good I own the saber saw but it is heavy and overkill for anything less than 6 inches in diameter.

Skam
 
skammer said:
For sawing limbs and trees up to 2 inches in diameter the large SAk's with saw are hard to beat when couting ounces and overall utility.

For chopping and spliting anything larger a 7 inch+ blade is a must when limbing and splitting. Saws fall very short when it comes to limbing as it takes 2-3 times longer than a large blade and don't even think about splitting wood with it.

For prying and spliting its hard to beat the steel performance and warranty of the Swamp Rats and Busse blades. I have bent 2 KBars and found the SRK too small for real chopping and prying open wood for the fire.

Saws have their place but are limited in their utility.

The pocket chain saws work good I own the saber saw but it is heavy and overkill for anything less than 6 inches in diameter.

Skam
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If my transport is my feet:

Don't pry if it will cause the knife to fail. Use wooden wedges to open the cut created. I don't need to split anything that a Badger Attack length knife is too short to start.

Folding prunning saws are slower for limbing but in a weight/utility/safety equation, they do very well for woods use. Saw half-way through a length or wood and strike against a rock with the cut down - the wood will typically split lengthways. The cut creates a stress-riser.

Small dry limbs are taken by hand - no tool typically required.

If my transport is a motor vehicle:

I have an ax (or two) :)
I have a khukuri (or two) :)
I have a fixed Coronna prunning saw :)
 
At the end of the day there is more than one way to skin the cat. A blade that is damaged during prying is not a good blade. Some myself included prefer a tool that will do it all instead of carrying multiple tools but of course this is debatable.

Your BA is a great blade and will survive prying but doesn't excel at it as well as other longer Busse blades will thus you use other means to split.

Whatever works for you great.

Hound
 
I think skammer summed it up pretty well. What ever you decide on, know the limitations and capabilities. I like the larger blades (6-8") for my military duty, but when backpacking, I take a different approach. I've used the smaller ~4" fixed bladed knives much more than the large ones. Of course, I've complemented them with a good folding saw (Gerber or Sawvivor), a good small hatchet (GB Wildlife or Roselli), and a 12-14" machete or golock. About the biggest fixed blade I carry when hunting or backpacking is my Busse NOe. As with most here, the folder(s), SAK and/or multi-tool are SOP at all times :D

If I was going with a more limited set-up, I'd definatly consider the larger knives much more...but for my use, I can get a lot more done with the above. I'm not a big user of the "pocket chainsaws"...they work okay, but I typically get by better with a smaller folding saw. The Sawvivor zips through 5-6" logs really well, and the hatchet quarters them up quickly (I guess a large knife would excel at battoning that size as well). A few hours work, and I can have enough manageable fireword for cooking a couple of days.

ROCK6
 
I think I now recall the original - and accurate - slogan: : "The survival knife is the one you have with you."

That slogan leads to "Therefore" . . . and hours of good fun, as above. ;)
 
Will
.....what you are asking about is what makes a good camping knife?,,,
then I would go with a type of knife that works well in the outdoor kitchen.

But if you are asking about a knife that you may use for almost everything?.a survival in the wilds knife?..then you got to go with a big bigger knife,,something that might be able to give you a little protection if you needed it for that job.

In the winter it is very important to have a good finger guard on a outdoors field knife,,,because cold fingers dont always do what you tell them,,,they dont always grab as tight as you needed.
 
DaQo'tah Forge said:
In the winter it is very important to have a good finger guard on a outdoors field knife,,,because cold fingers dont always do what you tell them,,,they dont always grab as tight as you needed.
Click to expand...

That seems like common sense and fits my prejudices, yet there is cold weather in Scandinavia, and not a guard to be seen except on knives for children and for export. Of course, they do some things with handles that help address the problem.
 
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