Skinning knife - Which steel?

C

Citori

Joined
Sep 28, 2002
Messages
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This forum was recommended by someone at RimfireCentral, and it seems like a great place to learn a little something. I read most of the archives in this one looking for a few things. As I was in the market for a decent folder I took the advice I found in one thread and bought a Kershaw Vapor and Vapor II. I don't know jack about the various steels but these both feel nice in my hand and open and close smoother than any knife I've ever had. Better than the Beretta give-away I have been carrying. When I can appreciate these enough I'll step up to something better.

To get to my question. Hunting season is coming up and I'd like to get a good skinning knife. I have been using an old (very old) Camillus folder but the blades are just about sharpened out on it. I hesitate to replace it because I've never used a knife that held an edge or sharpened as well as it did. Both blades are stained black and were that way when I got it, but it still works well.

My requirements, in order of importance are:
- Holds an edge after cutting through reasonably tough hide. (rabbit, deer, turtle!, etc.)
- Sharpens sharp
- Corrosion resistant
- Doesn't nick if I hit a bone

The first one is of greatest importance by far. I hate to be in the middle of dressing out something and have to stop, clean up, and sharpen my knife. I don't really care if the blade stains and I don't care what the handles look like. I seldom go wild and hack at anything, so nicking an edge really isn't likely regardless.

If anyone has any recommendations for a certain steel I would appreciate them. Specific knives would be great, but there is a decent knife shop near me and I'd like to walk in there and ask to handle all of the fixed blade knives he has in whatever steel you all recommend. I guess I will spend whatever I need to, $200 or less maybe? Thanks.
 
Oh boy! You have a lot of choices in that price range. Do look at Bob Dozier (www.dozierknives.com). Look at his hunters. The steel he uses is called D2. Its not stainless, but is more stain resistant than plain carbon steel. At the same time, it gets very sharp, holds a fine edge a long time, and can be sharpened well thanks to Bob's edge geometry. Of course you have many other choices as well, but as real hunters go, no one ever seems to be disappointed with a Dozier.
 
Welcome to the Forums, Citori!
Here are some stainless steels that should fit your criteria of edge holding, resistance to rust and nicking (although all will nick a bit if you are not careful, if they are hardened to maximize edge holding, and even stainless steels will rust if not cared for).

S30V - a new powdered steel form Crucible, used alot by custom knife makers.

BG42 - a double vacuum melted steel popular with custom makers, also used by SOG and Buck on a few knives.

D2 - a tool steel that holds an edge very well, but not a real stainless steel. D2 dose have a good amount of chrome, making it "semi-stainless", though. D2 is used by Bob Dozier and on some knives from A.G. Russell and Queen, among others.

VG-10 - a Japanese steel which has become very popular over the past few years, used on alot of Spyderco, Fallkniven and Al Mar knives.

154CM/ATS34 - These steels are the same except 154CM is made in the U.S.A. by Crucible and ATS34 is made by Hitachi in Japan. These steels are very popular (although I prefer VG-10 myself) and hold an edge well.
 
You might look at the one on the bottom of this web site page. It is available now.
Bois D' Arc Skinner
The 52100 does hold a very good edge but then again, you may not like the style.
 
Yep. Take a look at Bob Dozier. His D2 isn't as stainless as many steels, but you'll have a hard time finding another knife that holds its edge as long. Bob also has first class kydex sheaths. A.G. Russell should have some Doziers in stock for hunting season.

If you want to go with a production knife, Marbles is worth taking a look at. No waiting time and a fiercly sharp convex edge. The sheaths aren't exactly amazing, but functional at least.
 
How about the Schrade Sharpfinger or the Schrade Guthook Skinner? Not fancy or expensive, but they seem pretty good to me. I have both models, one Sharpfinger and five Guthook Skinners with the tips modified in different ways. I don't hunt, these are just for utility.
 
If you want a knife specifically for skinning, why not buy a Wyoming Knife? It is an excellent knife with easily replaceable blades. Very sharp too.
 
I prefer non-stainless steel (1084,52100) for skinning knives, but have used the following stainless knives with excellent results:
154CM
ATS34
VG10
BG42

The biggest questions you need to answer are:
(1) Custom/Handmade knife or Production knife?
(2) Budget ? (this will affect the answer to question #1)

I can highly recommend Terry Primos. Do a search in the "Gallery" to see some of his work. Been using one of his drop point hunters for almost a year now, and it has been very impressive.
 
I have had bad luck with D2. It CHIPS BAD!!! I have had Doziers and a few others in D2 and if the D2 is ground even a little thin it chips out if you hit anything remotly hard. IMHO it is not a good "hard use steel" but if all you are cutting is meat and not going to hit bone or a knot in wood it will hold and edge very well, better than most.
I'd go with BG42 or S30V or good ol' 440C.
 
same opinion than frank k concerning the suggestions on the steel to choose from. I for my part have some knives made of those steels and until now I can say the following: Each of these steels will do the job very good, I think that you should look after a knife that fits perfectly for you´, which feels comfortable FOR YOU! Another not unimporant point is the game you intend to skin,....

Until one year ago my oppinion was, that nothing could beat my Buck Vanguard with BG-42 (Master Series) in skinning deer and elk and especially boars. But then I discovered the Fallkniven "H1" in VG-10!
Boy oh boy!!! What a knife!!! Skinning boars is really hard work for the edge! Sorry guys, but until now I didn`t found something equal concerning ease of handling, edge geometry, blade shape and edge holding. Contact with bones is not a problem at all for the convex edge, no chipping or denting, and VG-10 has a very aggressive edge - what is VERY important if you continuously cut through fur and skin. Have a close look at this knife and I assure you, that you can't go wrong with it!

Greetings,
Gerry
 
An old Marine who lived across the street from me would light his pipe up with a strike anywhere match and tell me stories about his adventures against the Japanese during WW2. During one of those cherished story-telling evenings, he showed me his Kaybar which had a brownish discoloration that looked like an anodized coating, a "bluing" which was not blue or black. Well, to make a long story short, blood has iron in it, and it makes deposits in the pores of High Carbon Steel which after use, begins to "rust" into an attractive "blue-brown coat" which I find to be attractive. One also finds this coloring in well used and maintained butcher knives as well. For that reason, if I were to hunt or butcher, I would choose a High Carbon Steel knife, along with the other benefits of that metal.
 
A little more on Bob Dozier’s D2….. I did a bunch of testing on Bob’s new convex ground D2 prototype skinner. I was not able to chip the edge on wood, even when batoning the blade into hard red cedar and cherry knots. Slicing strokes on beef bones also had a negligible effect on the edge. I actually beat the snot out of the knife for a full week, and was unable to dull the knife to the point of needing to sharpen it.

It wasn’t until I actually tried to chop a beef bone, that the blade took any damage whatsoever. This created a number of tiny chips, which were easily removed in minutes with 600 grit wet/dry paper. And to be fair, I also performed the same test on a number of production quality 52-100 carbon steel blades. The 52-100 blades faired much worse than the Dozier, instantly becoming completely unusable. They exhibited a high degree of both chipping and edge rolling.

Considering that the Dozier prototype and the other knives used some very premium steels, I can draw one conclusion. Don’t chop bones with a knife!!! Use a hatchet or a saw. If you can find a knife that will chop bones without damaging the blade, I’ll bet the edge will be far too thick for the rest of the work. Bob’s D2 is more than tough enough to handle minor slices into the bone and maybe some glancing blows, with probably no chipping, and certainly no edge rolling.

Bob Dozier’s convex ground D2 is simply amazing. I’ve never had a small/medium sized knife ground so thin, which could take so much abuse. I did terrible and nasty outdoor stuff to this blade, and was barely able to damage it whatsoever. And the damage I did was removed within two minutes of beginning to resharpen.

You not only have to find the right steel for your application, but you have to find the proper edge geometry as well. If you’re looking for a small/medium sized knife to dress and skin wildlife, and double duty for woodcraft and other camp jobs, it’ll be hard to beat convex ground Dozier D2.
 
The A.G. Russell Deer Hunter would be my pick. You can find them here. http://www.agrussell.com/agrussell/agdh-8a.html

You have the choice of D2, VG-10, or AUS-8A. VG-10 and AUS-8A are stainless steels while D2 is considered semi stainless. The AUS-8A model can be had for $49.95. I own one in VG-10, but I would not hesitate buying one in AUS-8A steel.

The blades of the Deer Hunter's are ground razor thin with a flat grind. It also comes with a thumb bolt sheath that I think is the coolest. You can clip the sheath to a belt loop, and you are ready to go. Big D1
 
Originally posted by AlphalphaPB
SkagSig40, how thin is "a little thin"?
Click to expand...

I now stay away from D2 blades that are around 1/8 inch thick and hollow ground. I used a D2 blade to skin a deer a few years back and hit a few bones and this chipped out the blade. I have used a Sebenza(bg42) on deer and had no chipping when hitting bone. The D2 blade was close to the Sebenza geometry. I also have had a 3/16 D2 blade(hollow ground) that has a much thicker edge maybe a little more than twice as thick as the edge on the Sebenza and it holds up better but still has a few small chips from normal skinning tasks.

The thinner the edge the better it is for skinning. I feel D2 with a thin edge will be great to cut just meat but if you might be hitting harder materials like bone and harder woods or using the knife in freezing conditions D2 is not the best choice. There are other steels that you ground thin and still have better toughness and hold an edge almost as long as d2 and in some cases longer.
I like BG42,S30V,440C and ATS34 for stainless and 52100,1084,1095 and my favorite 5160 for using knives. Just care for them and rust should not be an issue.
 
Just a couple of comments from a former professional game processor (and domestic meat as well.)

1. Buy a "drop point" or "semi-skinner" style blade shape. Don't use a "trailing point" shape. The two recommendations above are the proven designs in a packing house. The trailing point too easily punctures hides or gut when you don't want to.

2. Don't use your knife to chop bones, split brisket or pelvis. First of all, if you know what you're doing, you don't need to do either to properly field dress an animal (with the exception of halving or quartering a large animal to pack it out, or opening up to remove body heat on a warm day). If you must cut bone, carry a small folding saw. A good folding saw is lighter than your knife and infinitely more functional. You will not break the saw in the course of sawing but you probably will break your knife if you use it to sever bones!

I've never understood why we purchase game knives that are drastically different than those used in a packing house, all day long, to do the same function. We seem to make do with some silly design that would not even be considered by someone whose job it was to skin or eviscerate beef or sheep for a living.

Bruce
 
Try S90V I use and heat treat. Mine has proven plenty tough. As long as you don't like, twist the edge into bone back an forth. :-) Just plain cutting should be fine. Holds an edge damn well. Average corrosion resitance. Tough to sharpen, but a steel works as a great maintainance tool before it comes to that. Hmm, I'll have to get some new knives done to post on the site. Anyway, those are my thoughts. best of luck in your knife hunt!

-Jason
 
Wow, lots of replies.

I tried using a Schrade Sharpfinger for a while but I couldn't keep an edge on it. During the coldest months of the year I do a little trapping as well. If you've ever skinned a beaver you know that it is hard on a knife because nearly every square inch of the pelt has to be cut away, it doesn't peel off like most other animals.

That 'bluing' is what is on the blades of my Camillus I think. It looks very much like gun blue and it seems to be getting darker every season.

The Dozier knives look great, but I'm a sucker for wood. That Bois D'Arc skinner might be showing up in my hand very soon. It looks like it would be easy to handle, although I'd like to find one somewhere to fondle before I buy. Some good comments on the 52100 steel in it, and a couple less than glowing ones. Maybe I take another look at the Doziers.

I need to educate myself on metallurgy I think. This is some interesting stuff.
 
Not to inflate Ray's head :p or anything, but I am certain you would find one of his hunter's to your liking. You are talking about a repeating cutting champion who's blades have also held up VERY well to some of Cliff Stamp's brutal testing (concrete block chopping!). In a nutshell, he grinds a very high performance blade which is equally tough. Hell, anyone can grind a blade from a given steel, the art is in getting the most performance out of it with the proper heat treat. To quantify Ray's 52100 by relying on the results obtained with a production knife using the same steel is like basing your decision on whether you like hamburgers by eating a McDonalds hamburger. Better try ground sirloin first. When deciding on a knife, don't just look at the steel, take a good look at who is treating it.
 
Heads up - Latest issue of TK has a feature artical on skinning knives and those with gut hooks. Very well-rounded view of some knives.
 
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