Sleeping bags?

H

Hotrod

Joined
Mar 19, 2003
Messages
978
Hey guys...

I've been doing some thinking about picking up some camping gear! Not so much for long term back packing... but a decent bag to throw in the trunk for catching some shut eye!

I'm re-doing a boat, so one of the things I'd like to be able to do... is instead of putting a matress/sheets and blankets, just get a REAL NICE sleeping pad and a great sleeping bag.

My question... The last time I bought a bag it was a fleece blanket with some zippers. It did not do well the couple of nights spent below freezing. (Thank goodness for propane heaters...) I picked up a cheap CHEAP bag at sams a couple months back, had a chance to test it out... not real nice, the insulation is like that of a pillow... it crushes down. It was plenty warm, but not big enough for me! My frames 6 feet, mostly feet and torso... so that didnt work out to well.

Being in a marine environment... the insulation needs to not absorb much moisture, I've got an allergy to feathers, so unless they have a non-allergenic down nowadays... I guess a down back is out. I was wondering what the military is using (heard they switched to some highend polymer based something or other...) for the weight savings, incase I do ever want to take a hike so to speak.

The other half of my question... what kind of temperture ranges are the bags good for? I've seen heat ranges, where you can go minus something to freezing... on up to stuff thats rated for room temperature, is there a jack of all trades? Do I need to grab a couple for different conditions? Does humidity play a roll in the insulation factor?

I really hate how cotton on the boat gets soaking wet if its exposed to the air... that "beach towel" damp... YUCK!

Any ideas? Any not made in china? :cool:

Thanks :D
 
okay, here we go.

insulation: if you can't have down, go with either polarguard 3d, polarguard delta (newest version) or primoloft 1. don't buy hollofill, quallafill or any of the other antiquated polyester fills. not as light, lofty, or as compressable.

shells and liners: get at least a nylon shell, but not gore tex (it will trap in too much moisture). a microfiber shell is my favorite. it is fairly water resistant, usually wind proof (important), durable, and naturally hydrophobic (polyester instead of nylon). the inside should be nylon on most "real" bags.

ratings: bags are somewhat rate by the manufacturer by comfort to a low temperature, but these numbers are usually set for warm sleepers. if you are a cold sleeper, buy several degrees lower than you plan on being out in and be sure to eat before sleepy-time (fuel in the stove). the loft of the insulation is a better judge for temperature rating along with design. 6 inches of loft in a mummy bag is warmer than 6 inches in a rectangular (less dead air space to heat). and of course, the more loft the warmer (i.e. 6 is more than 5).

styles: i prefer mummy's, but i am willing to sacrifice rolling around space for heating efficiency, weight, compressability, etc. there are some decent square bags out there though. some companies offer extra zippers to change the bags deminsions or allow for venting. a full length zipper will allow for more venting options when it is warmer out. good bags come in different sizes, usually short (up to 5'8"), regualr (up to 6') and long (about 6'4").

manufacturers: sadly, most, if not all, major-company bags are made over seas. for example, the north face is owned by vanity fair, who also owns wrangler and several undies companies. so depending on the season, the sweat shop may be making bras, jeans, or that $400 gore-tex jacket. most small, but fantastic, companies in the usa that makes bags use high-quality down (it is a better insulator) and exotic shells and can easily cost $600. i personally have owned several north face and mountain hardwear bags as well as some boutique brands. marmot also makes a decent synthetic bag.

buying: unless you really like the people at the local outfitters, the best place to find good deals in on sites like: www.rei-oulet.com www.seirratradingpost.com www.campmor.com www.mgear.com you can usually find a decent synthetic 30 degree bag for under $100 or a 15 degree for under $150.

finally, answers to your questions (if not already covered).
try to find primoloft insulation. it supposedly stays warmer if it does get wet, but will not absorb moisture from the air, like polarguard, which is good stuff. for a do all bag, start with a 15 degree. it will take you at least spring and fall, parts of winter (depending on where you will use it) and summer you sleep on the darn thing anyway. don't skimp on the ground pad, since it keeps you from lossing heat to the ground because the insulation in the bottom of the bag will crush when you are in it. i really like mountain hardwear's backcountry pad. you can even use it for a float in the pool.

sorry this was so long, but i hope it helps. good luck and just like anything else, you get what you pay for. also, you should be warned that if you start with sleeping bags, you will probably end up with half a dozen like me, because actually, you do want different bags for different situations. just like knives and lights and packs and boots and stoves and ...

kevin
 
Well, it just so happens that I can't really help you out on that one, I'm sorry.

I have been sleeping with my sleeping bag for a few years now, went camping one day, and was too lazy to put it away. The best damn blanket in the whole damn world!
 
There are many exellent sleeping bags, many "small shops" make in USA. However if it really is for car use or not far from car, then I suggest you stick with good wool blanket (or 2 ) if you want to save space. Any quality sleeping bag cannot be packed in their stuff sack for over a couple weeks, it can cause permanent compression for down or synthetic- synthetic will break down faster then goose down also . You can stuff in loose "laundry style bag" which usully come with better bags for long term storage, however this is not compact. For pad- You can get solid foam pad and roll it up, get as thick as you like if its in your car, 1" is good for down to 30 degree more or less depending on your body accomadation to cold, 1 1/2" good to 0 degrees or less depending. Air pad like sleeping bag cannot be left rolled up for extensive period of time, it will affect ability to reach full inflated.
Sleeping bag advantages only for hiking & back packing- otherwise no need for light weight and compacting ability for packing. If light weight and compact packing (short term ) size isn't important ,then wool blankets is still best way to go. Also wool retains insulating ability when wet, sleeping bag insulation does not- synthetic is better then gose down but even synthetic loses 1/2 insulating ability or more depending on quality.
Martin
 
I will look for some wool blankets to try out...I'm not set on anything quite yet, as the boats not finished!

I'll price a decent bag as well... probably nicer than the cheapie I'm using currently!

That being said, have any of yall toured with a motorcycle? I'm doing some pondering as to what kind of wet bags they use to keep their stuff dry... as I said earlier, the boat is rather humid! Currently I'm just using trash bags tied off nice and tight. Works ok, but a trash bag isnt something thats easy to re-tie after being stretched!

Thanks guys... gold mine of information in this thread!
 
i don't know what others use, but i like whitewater rafting dry bags. though most are not fully waterproof if submerged (i refer to them as moist bags), they will definitely keep out rain, splashes, etc. they come in tiny sizes to body bag looking things (which is another possibility for boat storage though may involve explanations now and then). either way, check the sites i mentioned above as well as www.nrs.com

k
 
Hmm...

If they arent air tight, they wouldnt be humidity tight. I guess ya either find something that wont absorb anything, or ya put it in a vacuum! That being said, I'd take a guess that the insulation wouldnt bounce back real well after having all the air yanked out of it.

Thinking back to when I opened up the box, I "think" whats in my current cheapie is holofill 2, dupont stuff whatever it is. Even with just the couple nights I've used it... you can feel the insulation "balling up" inside the covers. Dont know what thats all about... but I tend to overkill everything (as long as its not entirely to cost prohibitive!)

Is a mummy bag worth it? I tend to roll around a good bit as it is... would I need someone else to unzip me after a night in one of those? From the VERY little bit of camping I've done... the square bags worked out ok, but its been a LONG time since I got my polar bear badge!
 
about the humidity thing. as long as the material is hydrophobic (like polyester, somewhat unlike nylon, especially unlike cotton) it should not draw moisture to it.

the cheaper fills will clump more quickly, but worse, they loss loft faster. throwing the bag in a front load dryer on low or no heat with a couple of clean tennis balls should help with lumpiness. it definitely does with down.

if you are coordinated enough to sail and ride motorcycles, you should have no trouble with the zipper in a mummy bag. as far as squirming, just roll the entire bag with you. just make sure the one you get is wide and long enough. if you have questions, go to a store and hop in theirs. i do sometimes just for giggles. and yes, they are worth it if you need to stay warm.

another thought. if you get too similar bags, one with right hand and the other with a left hand zipper, then you can zip them together. that makes for a lot more fun during cold nights on the boat.

k
 
If you want to pick up an excellent quality sleeping bag "made in the USA" but still roomier then mummy styles- check out Big Agnes bags http://www.bigagnes.com/
They are not cheap but they are best unless you want to pay Western Mountainerring type price or higher, also made in USA.
Martin
 
Greetings from northern Ohio.

Insulation results from "dead" air. If we're talking about garments, and a sleeping bag is a specialized garment, the air is trapped in small spaces within the fiber or between layers of fabric.

Generally speaking, a thicker sleeping bag is warmer; however, design is also a factor. A hood on the bag that can be cinched up keeps warm air from excaping. (A blanket can be fitted over the head and around the shoulders to help replace a missing hood. [Close the window!])

All things being otherwise equal, a one inch thick Qualofill bag is a warm as one inch of wool blankets so long as both are dry. The wool is, of course, much heavier, will not compress much, and is not as easy to clean. When the wool and polyester fill become equally damp, the wool is less warm and takes longer to dry. Most premium polyester fills, some mentioned above, are silicon treated ("hydrophobic") and body heat alone will help dry the bag. (So don't dry clean polyester bags because it will remove silicon.)

Under you, you need insulation that will not crush (lose trapped air) under your weight, and that pretty much means closed-cell foam pads or self-inflating open-cell foam-filled air matresses (example, Thermorest).

The military published suggested thicknesses of insulation for given temps. The figures are for total thickness of the bag. (Shake it our, let it rest for a few minutes, then measure.):

40f 3.00"
30f 3.50"
20f 4.00"
10f 4.50"
0f 5.00"
-10 5.50"
-20 6.00"
-30f 6.50"

I would want more for a margin of error in case I was ill or hungry.

Like most sporting goods, sleeping bags are regularly discounted. I have used Sierra Traders and Cabela's specials. They are more possibilities.

Stay warm.
 
Get a long, large, synthetic fill, cheap bag from Cabelo's, or elsewhere. Control the temperature variables by putting a fleece blanket inside the bag for extra cold nights, or use a sheet inside with the bag unzipped for warm nights. During the winter , or on the boat keep an 8 hr. handwarmer available to put in the bag if you need extra warmth. In a freak, cold, survival situation, use hand warmers to boost the bag, and stay hydrated, (it helps you stay warm) and eat before you go to bed. The main thing is think of your bag as a bed and use the blankets or sheets, and the zipper on the bag to make yourself comfortable. In cold weather remember the sleeping pad is worth 10 to 15 degrees so keep one on the boat. Try to store your bag as loose as is practical so it doesn't become permanently compressed. As much as 50% of heat is lost through the head so I always keep a ski mask with my stuff in the trunk. Really in your case as long as you have a blanket or two, a cheap bag on sale from big 5 or target would work great since it is for the car trunk and the boat.
 
Thanks for the information guys!

I had a chance to use my current holofill2 bag this past weekend. Inside temps dropped when the dock lost power, it was in the 60's outside... my feet were COLD!

Do yall recomend just a decent wool watchcap for keeping some heat loss out the noggin down? Or is a blanket as mentioned... (I'm not much for the balaclava...) work best?

I'll do some looking around for some bags that are a step or two up from what I have currently. It has the "ability" to turn into a mummy bag (HA!) the zippers dont line up, and it turns into a mummy with a zip on head cover, that ya tighten down with elastic cord and plastic stoppers. Doesnt work well at all!

It sounds as though I'll be purchasing two different bags, a 70 degree ambiant and warmer... basically a self contained blanket... that follows ya when ya rolld around in a sea bunk. Then one thats a little bit warmer for freezing on up to mid 60's.

Thanks again guys! I'm always on the lookout for a better way of doing things... whether it be tools, clothing... cars... I havent tried out a "good" way to do a sleeping bag yet. Hope I dont get stuck in the "need the best!" line of thought that I'm plauged with in other hobbies... ah heck, its only time... and a paycheck away!

For a wool watchcap, what should I expect to pay at a surplus store? I have several near me... or off the commute to boat. Is wool the way to go? Machine washable?

:cool:
 
I wear a watch cap on my thinning noggin, but its polyester fleece, not wool. It stays soft and washing is a snap. I got on sale for $2.99 U.S. at K-Mart a couple years ago.

If you get thje two bags, one inside the other should be pretty warm.
 
yeah, i never sleep without a stocking cap when its cold. wigwam wool caps are my favorite because they're cheap, under $10, but more importantly, they are long enough that i can unroll it down to cover my nose. very important in single digits and lower. i hate my nose being cold when i sleep. it also makes it nice and dark so you can sleep in. and yeah, you can machine wash it.

for a great "summer" bag, look at http://www.marmot.com/ for the trails bag. it is basically thin polyester inside nylon sack. basically a body size wind shirt with lots of room and comes in a long size for up to 6'6".

you have lots of options for the other bag.

k
 
www.froogle.com has some decent prices on watchcaps... and some other cheap sleeping bags!

I'll have to investigate in a real store to see some of these products... :cool:
 
my wool caps have never shrunk. i think that the cheap wigwam ones are not all wool anyway. not sure though.
 
Hadnt ever heard of a bedroll till now...

Heard of taking a wool blanket and rollin it up as beddin material, but not canvas!

Pretty cool... :cool:

I'm gonna have to learn how to sew. 144 bucks without any insulation is might steap! :eek:

Yall have any sources for some cheap non-itchy wool blankets? I dont mind low creature comforts... but its nice not to itch if ya dont have to! :D
 
Do you still have that zippered fleece blanket? Those make a great sleeping bag liner -- or to keep the itchy wool blankets off you. It's soft, it's washable, it even adds a little warmth. :cool:
 
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