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Slip Joint Quality
- Thread starter jvan
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I pretty much agree with Oldways' list above, except I question Case's ranking. I own knives made by all of the makers you've listed, except for Canal Street (yet). All of those companies make good knives, they are just different. In terms if fit & finish, I rank Schatt & Morgan (made by Queen) at the very top. Queen City is also right up there, as is Northwoods. The main-line Queen knives are not as well finished as their higher-level offerings, but they're nothing to sneeze at, and they're less expensive.
GEC makes very nice, well-built knives. Their f&f is a bit less consistent than Schatt & Morgan, but they have old-school quality built into them, and they're built like tanks. Plus they use good steel. The main drawback to Schatt & Morgan is that they only use good steel, they don't use GREAT steel very often. If you can find one in 1095, then you've found a keeper. I'm not too crazy about their File & Wire series. Great steel, but almost all of the patterns are too large for my tastes. And the File & Wire series F&F is not quite as nice as their main line offerings.
I respectfully disagree with Oldway's assesment of Case's current product. Case has upped their game, and they are making very nice knives again. The new Chestnut CV series in particular, is almost a match for Schatt & Morgan finish. With better steel, and at a lower price! Case's Chestnut CV series represents the best value in traditional knives on the market today, IMO. GEC offers a lot of knife for what you pay as well.
Northwoods are nice- I only have one, a Scagel reproduction, and it's beautiful. Very pricey, but beautiful.
I would say the differences in terms of quality between the companies you've mentioned are small. It boils down to subtle differences in finishing and construction techniques. Case and Queen can put out a dud every now and then, but I certainly wouldn't write either company off. Queen offers different levels of finish at different price points. Case knives are sometimes hit or miss on individual knives, but they seem to have really upped their game in the last year or so. I'm far from an expert, however, I'm sure some of our better informed members will chime in shortly.
GEC makes very nice, well-built knives. Their f&f is a bit less consistent than Schatt & Morgan, but they have old-school quality built into them, and they're built like tanks. Plus they use good steel. The main drawback to Schatt & Morgan is that they only use good steel, they don't use GREAT steel very often. If you can find one in 1095, then you've found a keeper. I'm not too crazy about their File & Wire series. Great steel, but almost all of the patterns are too large for my tastes. And the File & Wire series F&F is not quite as nice as their main line offerings.
I respectfully disagree with Oldway's assesment of Case's current product. Case has upped their game, and they are making very nice knives again. The new Chestnut CV series in particular, is almost a match for Schatt & Morgan finish. With better steel, and at a lower price! Case's Chestnut CV series represents the best value in traditional knives on the market today, IMO. GEC offers a lot of knife for what you pay as well.
Northwoods are nice- I only have one, a Scagel reproduction, and it's beautiful. Very pricey, but beautiful.
I would say the differences in terms of quality between the companies you've mentioned are small. It boils down to subtle differences in finishing and construction techniques. Case and Queen can put out a dud every now and then, but I certainly wouldn't write either company off. Queen offers different levels of finish at different price points. Case knives are sometimes hit or miss on individual knives, but they seem to have really upped their game in the last year or so. I'm far from an expert, however, I'm sure some of our better informed members will chime in shortly.
Oldways, have you tried Case in the last few months? They really seem to be at the top of their game. I purchased a Chestnut CV Peanut and Swayback Jack that are finished every bit as well as the 3 S&M knives I bought in the past year. Case seems to have really upped their game recently--mirror finished blades, half-stops that are flush in 3 positions, etc.
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I am pretty much with MW on this. If we were talking Case from the late 80's or early 90's their quality took a downturn then, but of late I have been quite happy with Case knives I have purchased. Most of them have been newer patterns, so it could easily be due to more modern tooling.
Got my first G.E.C a week or two ago and was quite impressed with it too.
Got my first G.E.C a week or two ago and was quite impressed with it too.
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I own, and have handled, far less than these other guys who've posted but in my limited experience the File and Wire series isn't in the same league, f&f-wise, as CSC and the S&M anniversary knives. I do still like the one I have, however. 
I've yet to get my hands on any of the many QCC, Case, and GEC knives that I've been lusting after.
I've yet to get my hands on any of the many QCC, Case, and GEC knives that I've been lusting after.
Will Power
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I'm going to have to be controversial here,but that's what a forum can/should be at times.
The 4 Schatt&Morgans I own (not File&Wire admittedly) are well down in the quality/finish league compared to rivals. They've all got significant gaps and or lot of blade wobble,that's poor on a knife that is not cheap.:grumpy:
1.Great Eastern
2. Current CASE and Queen Cutlery tied
3. Böker Germany
4.Schatt&Morgan
5. Canal St. They look nice but totally pathetic spring/snap un-safe to use...
6. Rough Rider and considering they are very cheap to buy they show less quality issues than many of their more illustrious rivals..
Moore Maker, Ka-Bar, Hen&Rooster,Henckels and Camillus are not ranked as I only have 1-2 examples of each but all are good and show no finish problems.Worth the money certainly.
The 4 Schatt&Morgans I own (not File&Wire admittedly) are well down in the quality/finish league compared to rivals. They've all got significant gaps and or lot of blade wobble,that's poor on a knife that is not cheap.:grumpy:
1.Great Eastern
2. Current CASE and Queen Cutlery tied
3. Böker Germany
4.Schatt&Morgan
5. Canal St. They look nice but totally pathetic spring/snap un-safe to use...
6. Rough Rider and considering they are very cheap to buy they show less quality issues than many of their more illustrious rivals..
Moore Maker, Ka-Bar, Hen&Rooster,Henckels and Camillus are not ranked as I only have 1-2 examples of each but all are good and show no finish problems.Worth the money certainly.
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I bought a large case stockman in cv and bone and a large trapper in ss and bone, they are both absolutely perfect.
Then I bought a northfield #73 and sent it back to dealer for full refund ( all kinds of things wrong with it) and also a #54 big jack that is such a POS that I wrote Gec an email like a month ago and still haven't heard back from them. Although people seem to love them so I might be the only one with an experience like that.
I just got a Bret Dowell for a great price that didn't break the bank and it is AWESOME!!! So maybe look into a custom.
I would definitely buy more knives from case. I also will look into more customs.
Then I bought a northfield #73 and sent it back to dealer for full refund ( all kinds of things wrong with it) and also a #54 big jack that is such a POS that I wrote Gec an email like a month ago and still haven't heard back from them. Although people seem to love them so I might be the only one with an experience like that.
I just got a Bret Dowell for a great price that didn't break the bank and it is AWESOME!!! So maybe look into a custom.
I would definitely buy more knives from case. I also will look into more customs.
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Northwoods knives are made by Queen Cutlery so would fall under the same category somewhat, like a lot of things these days quality is lacking wherever you look.
Russell
eswartz
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I'm going to have to lean to wilgoy's list. It mirrors my feelings for the different companies.
I have not been impressed with the few S&Ms I have. The file and wire I have is nice, though.
I have a ton of GECs and Queens and quite a few Cases and Bokers.
Queens don't come very sharp. They have an elegant feel and have every pattern you can think of
The GECs are built like tanks. No soft edges on these.
Boker has a very precise feel to them. Almost a Victorinox quality of blade snap.
I can't get too excited about Canal Street for some reason. The Canal I have is a Cannitler with a weak spring.
Rough Riders are good in many patterns, not so good in others.
Bulldogs are pretty good in most patterns, not so good in some.
Northwoods are same as Queen with some better stag
Amherst has nice stuff and good handle materials.
It is hard to be too general. Each company has a different "feel" and it depends on what you like. IMHO, none of the knives are perfect and I find I need to tweak most of them a little to meet my standards - and my standards are low compared to others. By tweak, I mean setting blade play, blade centering, handle comfort, sharpness, snap, etc. to what I like. This may differ for someone else. Someone can probably find a fault with every knife that bothers them.
For example, the Case Chestnut CV Swayback I just got is really nice. The backsprings look like one laminated piece of steel. No gap at all until you get close to the bolster and then only a smidge of light shows through. But the blades were not centered as well as I like, so I centered them. They weren't hitting the liners, they just were not centered. It also has the typical Case high (over?) buffed and soft edges and corners, but not as bad as usual. The brass liners on the backsprings are concave compared to the steel backsprings from all the buffing. But I like that on this knife. No blade play, which was nice. Sharp.
My random thoughts,
Eric
I have not been impressed with the few S&Ms I have. The file and wire I have is nice, though.
I have a ton of GECs and Queens and quite a few Cases and Bokers.
Queens don't come very sharp. They have an elegant feel and have every pattern you can think of
The GECs are built like tanks. No soft edges on these.
Boker has a very precise feel to them. Almost a Victorinox quality of blade snap.
I can't get too excited about Canal Street for some reason. The Canal I have is a Cannitler with a weak spring.
Rough Riders are good in many patterns, not so good in others.
Bulldogs are pretty good in most patterns, not so good in some.
Northwoods are same as Queen with some better stag
Amherst has nice stuff and good handle materials.
It is hard to be too general. Each company has a different "feel" and it depends on what you like. IMHO, none of the knives are perfect and I find I need to tweak most of them a little to meet my standards - and my standards are low compared to others. By tweak, I mean setting blade play, blade centering, handle comfort, sharpness, snap, etc. to what I like. This may differ for someone else. Someone can probably find a fault with every knife that bothers them.
For example, the Case Chestnut CV Swayback I just got is really nice. The backsprings look like one laminated piece of steel. No gap at all until you get close to the bolster and then only a smidge of light shows through. But the blades were not centered as well as I like, so I centered them. They weren't hitting the liners, they just were not centered. It also has the typical Case high (over?) buffed and soft edges and corners, but not as bad as usual. The brass liners on the backsprings are concave compared to the steel backsprings from all the buffing. But I like that on this knife. No blade play, which was nice. Sharp.
My random thoughts,
Eric
Northwoods are not "fully" made by queen. The owner is adamant about that. For some knives they use their parts, for some knives Queen does some assembly, for all knives nobody knows the full story. The owner of northwoods has stated to the press and on his forum that each knife is different and the contribution of queen and other firms is different and he doesn't tell the full story as is his right.
The reason I say that is my nortwoods was more than disappointing and certainly not finished, built or heat treated to Queen standards.
Case's current product is quite good. Of the knives I have I'd give the following ratings:
Case Tony Bose Line
Schatt and Morgan File and Wire
Queen top of the line contract work
Victronix "swiss army"
Case commercial line
Queen commercial line
Douk Douk
Boker
Northwoods
The reason I say that is my nortwoods was more than disappointing and certainly not finished, built or heat treated to Queen standards.
Case's current product is quite good. Of the knives I have I'd give the following ratings:
Case Tony Bose Line
Schatt and Morgan File and Wire
Queen top of the line contract work
Victronix "swiss army"
Case commercial line
Queen commercial line
Douk Douk
Boker
Northwoods
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I'd hate to rain on anyone's parade, but all mass production slip-joint knives that I've bought lately have been defective in a small or big way. And I've bought just to see what's being built. Maybe I'm spoiled by Bose knives, I'm sure I am, but I'd expect more from people that have been making knives for so long. I don't want to name names, but I'm referring to just about all the brands listed above. It's sad.
knowtracks
Gold Member
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This has been my experience as well. :grumpy:
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Would you really expect mass-produced, sub-$100 knives to match the quality of Tony's handmade stuff? I think the last part of the quote above says it.
Comparing quality without connecting it into price is not so useful.
I am going to look at quality to price ratio and you come out with very different ratings
The Rough Rider Sawbone slippies have the best quality to price ratio.
For $10 a knife the quality is superb.
Queen with a price range of $45 to $55 give a superior ratio of quality to price.
A large range of patterns with good finish, but never consistant.
The same pattern can be a very easy opener to quite stiff.
The bone and wood is consistantly high quality.
Boker with price range of $30 to $40 are also very good.
They do not have the finish of either Queen or Rough Rider, but they are good users and with carbon blades.
The Case I have are mainly yellow delrin in CV and one bone in CV.
For the Yellas the quality price is good, but for an extra $10 for bone it does not come close to the Queen quality price ratio. (I am directly comparing stockmans)
MooreMaker in yellow delrin (old stock Camillus) have a very good quality to price ratio.
But these are no longer available
When I move into $65 plus for a slippie, I want much better quality.
I only have one S&M and one GEC, and both are that have a better finish than the Queens.
I found the F&F on the S&M to be excellent and worth the extra money.
Canal does not fit in to a good quality to price ratio.
Out of three knives, one was excellent, and on the strength of that knife purchased two more. I have sent them back, one for repair and the other they can keep!
I am going to look at quality to price ratio and you come out with very different ratings
The Rough Rider Sawbone slippies have the best quality to price ratio.
For $10 a knife the quality is superb.
Queen with a price range of $45 to $55 give a superior ratio of quality to price.
A large range of patterns with good finish, but never consistant.
The same pattern can be a very easy opener to quite stiff.
The bone and wood is consistantly high quality.
Boker with price range of $30 to $40 are also very good.
They do not have the finish of either Queen or Rough Rider, but they are good users and with carbon blades.
The Case I have are mainly yellow delrin in CV and one bone in CV.
For the Yellas the quality price is good, but for an extra $10 for bone it does not come close to the Queen quality price ratio. (I am directly comparing stockmans)
MooreMaker in yellow delrin (old stock Camillus) have a very good quality to price ratio.
But these are no longer available
When I move into $65 plus for a slippie, I want much better quality.
I only have one S&M and one GEC, and both are that have a better finish than the Queens.
I found the F&F on the S&M to be excellent and worth the extra money.
Canal does not fit in to a good quality to price ratio.
Out of three knives, one was excellent, and on the strength of that knife purchased two more. I have sent them back, one for repair and the other they can keep!
eswartz
Basic Member
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Hmmm, I have about 9 different Northwoods knives and don't really have any complaint about them. They seem equal or better than the Queens I have. They are mostly all in stag which I think is a little better than comparable Queens.
I'll take a closer look.
I'll take a closer look.
It's such a moving target; I have seen good and bad examples of almost every brand mentioned.
FWIW, I just picked up a new Case Trapperlock (red bone) and it is as nicely made as you could want; blade tight & well centered, no gaps or proud edges, and a great overall finish and feel.
FWIW, I just picked up a new Case Trapperlock (red bone) and it is as nicely made as you could want; blade tight & well centered, no gaps or proud edges, and a great overall finish and feel.
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Does that mean yyou have returned a knife and not been satisfied?