slip joint vs. lockback

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elimcbee

Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
160
will a lock back be tighter than a slip joint when it comes to blade play.Or is it in you the maker is?Does one tend to be tighter than the other?
 
"Not necessarily" is my best answer to both.

I have lockbacks with both more and less play than similar slipjoint patterns.

Some lockbacks command a premium by the maker versus a slipjoint (but this isn't always the case) and slipjoints are generally considered (overall) to be the most difficult of pocketknives to build.

Depending on the pattern, lockbacks (such as the Case lockback whittler or a custom version of the same) are (per Tony Bose and other high end makers) a true bear to build.
 
I believe blade play on a new knife is due to poor craftmanship and/or poor quality conrol of the company or maker.

It has nothing to do with the type of knife. IMO
 
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I want Halfrich to build me a Bose shadow trapper but I can't figure if I want it in a slippie or a lock back.Any one play with cpmd2?I am a fan of s30v and s60v, how would the cpmd2 compare?
 
I just recently made a few lockbacks and here is something I can pass on and take it for whats its worth. As the pivot pin is peened to remove blade play a bit at a time I noticed that when I still had some blade play in the closed and part way open position I could not feel any play when in the open or locked position. Of course all play was out in all positions as it should be.
Ken
 
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elimcbee said:
I want Halfrich to build me a Bose shadow trapper but I can't figure if I want it in a slippie or a lock back.Any one play with cpmd2?I am a fan of s30v and s60v, how would the cpmd2 compare?
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You won't go wrong with a knife in either style from Jerry (his work is great)...but he'll probably try to talk you into CPM-154. ;)
 
Blues Jerry is a great guy and a pleasure to talk with every time.I do know what you mean about how he likes cpm154.He made a knife out of cpmd2 and sent if off with a friend to do some hog hunting.He was telling me it is a bit early to tell but thinks cpmd2 will trump cpm154.
 
elimcbee said:
Blues Jerry is a great guy and a pleasure to talk with every time.I do know what you mean about how he likes cpm154.He made a knife out of cpmd2 and sent if off with a friend to do some hog hunting.He was telling me it is a bit early to tell but thinks cpmd2 will trump cpm154.
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I've discussed that steel with both Jerry and Ken Erickson in the past and it seems to have a lot of good qualities.

I am actually awaiting a knife from J.B. Moore in CPM-D2. It's Jim's favorite steel so I told him to use it when he builds mine. It's a bit overdue so hopefully it won't be too long before I can report on it.
 
Blues any idea how cpm-d2 compares to s30v or s60v?I am sitting here playing with a slippie from Jerry in cpm154 and I don't think(only had it for a day now) it will take a keen of an edge as s60v.I have heard that cpm-d2 will hold an edge in between s30v and s60v but is easier to sharpen.I am looking for some think that will stand with s60v but can be sharpened in the field.
 
elimcbee said:
I want Halfrich to build me a Bose shadow trapper but I can't figure if I want it in a slippie or a lock back.Any one play with cpmd2?I am a fan of s30v and s60v, how would the cpmd2 compare?
Click to expand...

A properly made lockback should have the same blade fit as a properly made slipjoint when open -- no side to side play to be felt. The difficulty with lockbacks concerns some users who also insist that the blade should drop down freely when the lock is pressed on a good lockback -- this can be a very difficult trick to balance (personally, no play is far more important to me than dropping freely on unlock).

I'd trust Halfrich to get it right on either a slip or lockback - so the only real question is - which do you want most? If the maker makes his lockbacks just like his slipjoints (properly pinned construction and all that - I'm not talking screwed together "construction" here), then the extra fitting on a lockback normally adds more time to the task, which adds to the price a bit (there are also at least a dozen ways to make a lockback - some are more difficult than others and require more time and finesse).

CPM-D2 is just a particle/powder steel version of D2 - basically it's just a superb quality D2. I'm not going to get into comparisons here (Elliott would have my hide), but D2 is one of my favorite working steels -- and with a top maker of using knives like Halfrich, you'll get a proper heat treat that brings out the full potential of the steel plus the edge geometry to make it work. Just watch your fingers.

-- Dwight
 
elimcbee said:
Blues any idea how cpm-d2 compares to s30v or s60v?I am sitting here playing with a slippie from Jerry in cpm154 and I don't think(only had it for a day now) it will take a keen of an edge as s60v.I have heard that cpm-d2 will hold an edge in between s30v and s60v but is easier to sharpen.I am looking for some think that will stand with s60v but can be sharpened in the field.
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Won't know for sure until I get it and even then, if the blades aren't profiled the same the evidence would be skewed.

As you know from talking with Jerry it's all about balance and trade-offs.

Tony Bose is a huge fan of S60V (440V) and I like it as well. Takes a great edge and holds it a long time. I only have one S30V (Rinaldi) and a couple of S90V blades (Carson, Ralph) but each of the profiles are very different. But then again, plain vanilla D2 is one of my favorite steels.

If you go to the "Review" forum or the "Knifemaker's Q&A" you may be able to get info from folks that have tested these steels against one another with blades of comparable thickness and profile.

(My guess is that from makers of the abilities we are talking about here we are talking about very small increments of difference in real world applications.)
 
zerogee said:
CPM-D2 is just a particle/powder steel version of D2 - basically it's just a superb quality D2. I'm not going to get into comparisons here (Elliott would have my hide), but D2 is one of my favorite working steels -- and with a top maker of using knives like Halfrich, you'll get a proper heat treat that brings out the full potential of the steel plus the edge geometry to make it work. Just watch your fingers.

-- Dwight
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Awww, you're just fun to beat up on, Dwight. ;)

Feel free to expound if you can keep it within the confines of the OP's requested info.
 
I spoke to Jerry a few weeks ago while he was on his way to shoot some wild hogs. He said he liked the CPM 154 because it's easier to get an edge back faster in the field than some other steels, but it still holds an edge for a long time in the first place.

As noted, the heat treat is the key. D2, 440v, CPM 154, 52100 have all been good enough for me.

I'm getting a lockback from Jerry soon because I wanted at least one custom lockback.
 
I must have been very lucky, none of the lockbacks I own have any blade-play, so I assumed they were inherently tighter than a slip-joint. Appears not.

A Moki lockback I have is really well finished, it has an odd quirk though. The blade doesn't drop down when you press the lock but it will come out a short distance and snap back when you stop pressing the lock. The tolerances on it are very impressive.
 
CPM D2??
Wow, i must be further out of the loop than i thought I was...(very possible)-->Thats a new one on me.
 
jerry as of 2yrs.back was doing the dozier type d2 heattreat. most d2 wo'nt take a real high polish, do'nt know about the cpm d2. i believe the cpm with a good heattreat will out perform regular d2. i'm hoping jerry will correct me if my info is wrong.
 
ken erickson said:
I just recently made a few lockbacks and here is something I can pass on and take it for whats its worth. As the pivot pin is peened to remove blade play a bit at a time I noticed that when I still had some blade play in the closed and part way open position I could not feel any play when in the open or locked position. Of course all play was out in all positions as it should be.
Ken
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I can only begin to appreciate the tolerances you are dealing with here. I am envious of these learned and acquired skills. Maybe, once the kids are a little older, I can begin learning to make/build slipjoints. As for now, putting scales on fixed blades are lots of fun, and an easy introduction into knife work. It is easy to work with knives that only have one moving part-me. :D
 
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