Slipjoint nail file, questions.

javand

javand

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Oct 17, 2010
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I posted this in Shop Talk, but someone recommended I post here. I make slipjoints, mostly traditional styled small ones. I'm interested in incorporating small tools into my multi-blades, and one thing I'm interested in is files. I'm curious if anybody has any information on how they were made, what caveats there are (geometry to the cuts, etc) especially in the sheffield style.

Some seem pretty basic, but I've seen some that are much more refined. I've got a request out to Ken Erickson for info, I know he's done some, but if any of you guys have any information, I'd appreciate it. I'm also interested in finding out if there's any literature on this sort of thing, in any of the older books. Most of the contemporary literature only deals with blades.

Thanks!
 
To be clear, I assume the old sheffield types were cut with a chisel the way files and rasps were, but I'd like information to verify, and ideally, duplicate this. If I'm incorrect in this assumption, I'd like to know also, and I'd be interested in the best methodologies with modern equipment.

I've got some ideas how to do it on a mill or surface grinder, but it's always better to know the whole story first if possible, to avoid wasted effort.
 
supratentorial said:
You might find this 1889 article interesting. http://www.netris.org/ritoolmakers/FILEMAKING/File-making-H-M.html
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've read that previously. It's sparse, but a good primer. However, I'm looking for more specific technical details. Angles of the chisel, desired hardness of such, angles of the cut, etc. I know there is some older literature that covers it from the general "file making" standpoint, but I was hoping there's some that's specific to pocket knives also.
 
Why not buy ready made steel nail files with diamond grit and just modify them to fit your knife? Would be a lot easier than trying to make a nail file. I just cut an old one of my wifes and ground its ends slightly rounded and superglued it to the back scale of my Victorinox Tinker. Works great; not the most beautiful thing in the world, but totally functional (which is my main concern).
Rich
 
That's certainly an option, but I'm interested in making these by hand, and from scratch, so to speak.

I make pretty high end slipjoints, and I don't think re-purposing something in that manner would add value, or compliment that theme.
 
I too am interested in making some of the Sheffield pattern knives. I have not found much info on cutting files. I have however cut a number of small rasps, it worked very well.
The following two videos may be of some help. The first shows the tools used in cutting large files, the second demonstrates the much finer tools and technique for cutting rasps. A combination of the two should work very well for cutting the small files we are interested in. Please let me know how you make out with this little exercise.

Wolfe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XBmJrhoK1g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvr2nZeAfNc
 
Can't help out or add to the manufacturing aspect, I admire your dedication to authenticity .

I can add a pic of a nail-file manicure blade from the era though! Here, a J.Nowill & Sons, Sheffield late c19th early c20th. The only blade on this 4 blade (all sunk-joints...) Equal End that hasn't been sharpened to a sliver or broken off :eek: Not seen much use, I wonder if these file/manicure items were made of a softer steel than the cutting blades simply to facilitate manufacture? But then, blades were likely softer anyway.

Regards, Will

IMG_3942.jpg
 
Anneal the steel to where it's soft, use a chisel with a straight bevel ground edge, make very small adjustments as you cut moving backwards down the blade. temper when done. You may also want to check out some of the engraving tools available to hand engravers. They have the properties you're looking for (fine cuts on hard steels). You pretty much need to cut the steel to raise the burr up (and that becomes a cutting edge). Using a checkering file might work if it only cut on one edge, but I don't think it would give the fine (or sharp) edge you need. I once watched a guy make a wood rasp from a piece of round cold stock using a sharpened (and hardened) nail to make the burrs. Casinite works pretty good for hardening, but it's a pain to clean the scale.
 
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Yeah, I spent a fair bit of time researching this topic the last few days, and inspecting old pieces I've got similar to the pic above. It's pretty obvious that these files were cut with a chisel the traditional way. Makes sense from what I've now gleaned from the sheffield/file-cutter history.

I spent an hour yesterday afternoon forging chisels based on what photos I could find. I also ordered this video from the UK: http://www.iarecordings.org/compilations/c27.html Which has a section on file cutting.

I'm certain this could be done easily on a mill with a fly cutter or dovetail cutter at an angle, but I'd like to do it the old way. The more I read about filecutting history, the more interested I am in it, and more concerned about the disappearance of this art. Obviously it's not as sexy as knifemaking, but it's just as critical, if not more so, to maintain, especially considering the decline of quality with machine cut files outside of the swiss manufacturers these days.
 
I made a couple of these years ago.

Layout was done by cold-bluing the file blank, then making a single pass with a thread-chasing file with just enough pressure to scratch the bluing. Before cutting the file teeth I practiced on all four sides of a piece of keystock (would have made a nice file if it weren't dead soft!).

The chisel was a modified shop-made cold chisel. I hardened it to around 62 RC, but I'm not sure that was necessary--I suspect 58RC would be fine. At the tip, it was around 1/2" wide, ground with a single bevel at about 25 degrees. You want the tip sharp, with a polished edge, no burr, and no secondary angles. Sharpening the thing was more like sharpening a wood chisel: I used a chisel-sharpening jig to hone it.

In use, the chisel was held with the cutting edge on my layout line, bevel up. The end of the chisel was elevated til the bevel was close to vertical. I tapped the chisel once per tooth, then moved to the next, working from the handle end towards the tip.

During the process I think I learned more about sharpening a cold chisel than about file making. About the only files I've made since then were little floats for flattening the ground in carving.

Oh, FWIW the files I was replacing were apparently never hardened. A file would cut them.
 
The problem with cutting the grooves (vs. chiseling them) is that you're taking material away. You don't want to do that in this case. What you want to do is raise up a series of cutting edges from the base stock.
 
Robeson Cutlery made at least one pattern with a pretty much standard drug store type nail file.

Not much complicated machining to be done with this. It's a typical flexible file, but it has a standard pocketknife tang.

I don't know if any other manufacturers did this or not.

 
CNoyes said:
Robeson Cutlery made at least one pattern with a pretty much standard drug store type nail file.

Not much complicated machining to be done with this. It's a typical flexible file, but it has a standard pocketknife tang.

I don't know if any other manufacturers did this or not.

Click to expand...

Schrade's "flexible file" was similar. The tang was built up with two other layers of steel sandwiching the file.



You can see the file on the left hand side.
 
Well, you could pretty easily do a masked and course grit abrasive blasted section of a piece to create an "emery board" style nail file, however, probably not the route I'll pursue.


Good stuff all around though, thanks everyone for collaborating.
 
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