Slugging and Milsurp Bore Conditions

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A new thread was requested, so here it is.

How to slug:

You'll need a slug and something to drive it with. The slug should be pure lead or nearly so, large enough to engage the rifling fully but not so large that it can't be pounded in. Fishing weights work well for this. To drive the slug a cleaning rod will work in a pinch but is not a good idea. Use a wood dowel slightly smaller than the bore and several inches longer than the barrel. Cut it into 6" lengths to prevent breakage.

Clean the bore thoroughly and leave it well oiled. Grease up the slug and pound it through. It should not take much force. Pay attention to the feedback that you're getting from the dowels. Ideally it will feel the same all the way down. If the slug is moving an inch or two each time you tap it and it suddenly moves eight inches (or, even worse, starts moving under hand pressure alone) you've got a loose spot.

Why is this important? Bullets are picky. They'll bump up a bit to fill a slightly loose bore (assuming the pressure behind the bullet is high enough) and they'll squeeze down into a constriction but they don't like it; the more we deform them, the worse accuracy will be. The real killer is when a bullet has to do both -- squeeze down, then bump back up again. You'll wind up with gas cuts and mangled jackets and the target will notice.

Now, you know and I know that all weapons have a nominal bore diameter, so if we know that we're good, right? Wrong. Slug some of your factory firearms and be prepared for a surprise or two. Even today, the occasional lemon gets out. (Fortunately, unlike with milsurps, you can send the lemon back and get a new one.) In WWII and before, there was no CNC machining, less precise metallurgy, and sometimes a war going on. Work was hurried, workers were sometimes not properly trained, worn tooling was used longer than it should have been, etc. After being built the rifle was issued to a soldier who may or may not have cleaned it properly (or even at all) and may have been fired far more than it should have been. The result is some variance in bore diameters and if it's too loose, accuracy probably isn't going to be very good.

How loose is too loose? Ideally, jacketed bullets should match groove (not land) diameter; cast bullets should be .001-.002" larger than this. Sometimes you can get away with being .001" under. Usually not. Jacketed bullets tend to handle such abuse better than cast but no bullet will perform at its best like this.

Sometimes we have other problems -- for instance, my M44 with the oval bore. Slugging will reveal these as well.

Loose spots or constrictions inside the bore are often caused at the factory. Sometimes they can be fixed. Sometimes they still shoot. Sometimes they're goners. It has to be taken on a case-by-case basis.

Hope that helped.
 
Some manufacturer's lead bullets, projectile component, are also very soft and can be used for this. Pick the next oversized calibre up.
I try and allow the lead mass to come out the crown evenly and not be deformed by any twisting or side to side motion which could deform it slightly and change the final measurement.

Sometimes, once you've slugged the barrel of your gun, a voice in your head says, 'ah haaa; now I know why you shoot the way you do...."
It's actually surprising how forgiving most rate of twist and bullet weight / diameter combos are in a barrel. We live in a lucky universe.
Things could be more persnickity then they are. A few thousandths variances in a rifle barrel bore diameter often does not destroy accuracy.

munk
 
Dave Rishar said:
Loose spots or constrictions inside the bore are often caused at the factory.

Sometimes they can be fixed.

Sometimes they still shoot.

Sometimes they're goners.


It has to be taken on a case-by-case basis.

Hope that helped.

Dave, can/will you expand on the part I put in bold above?
In what cases can they be fixed?

In what cases do they still shoot?

And which ones are goners and if it's the barrel on an otherwise good Mauser or other action with an excellent rep can it be rebarreled at a reasonable cost and should it be?

It's not a long arm but I'm really surprised at the shape the Walther P-1/P-38 I received from AIM is in. The bore looks as good as the day it was issued to me!!!!:eek: :thumbup: :D :cool:
But most if not all of y'all know that I'm more of a knife guy than I am a gun guy so when it comes to guns I have to ask questions and then pay attention.;) :o
 
It really has to be taken on a case-by-case basis with your gunsmith. He's the guy that's gonna have to fix it; he'll know whether he can do it or not. Examples that I've personally witnessed at one time or another:

Fixable -- one small constriction in the bore. The barrel gets torqued into the receiver a bit too tightly and the bore gets squeezed there. Sometimes they still shoot and sometimes they don't, but an improvement is almost always noticed if it's fixed.
Possible fixes: remove/reinstall barrel, or lap by hand to loosen up the tight spot.

Still shoots -- you've got a milsurp with a lot of pitting but strong rifling. You detect a loose spot while slugging it and it's somewhat over nominal bore diameter. The muzzle crown is rough. However, the rifle shoots great for some reason, maintaining 3-4 MoA at 100 yards. (An acceptable number for a milsurp rifle with milsurp ammunition. Acceptable for a new factory rifle too, really.) How can it be shooting well when every accepted theory of interior ballistics says that it should not? I don't know.
Possible fixes: none required. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The barrel will probably foul more quickly because of the pitting. Figure out how many rounds it takes to foul badly enough to degrade accuracy to an unacceptable level and clean after that many shots. Fooling around with it to fix those problems may induce more.

Won't shoot -- 1954 Romanian M44 with a freaking oval bore. It doesn't shoot now and likely never will, no matter what I do.
Possible fixes: rebarrelling is necessary. Paying several hundred bucks to rebarrel an $80 milsurp doesn't make a lot of sense, so it's essentially unfixable. I'd also be worried about how that bore became oval in the first place. Was it a factory screwup or did someone run it over? And if so, is the receiver sound? What else is out of spec?

A bad barrel can usually be replaced; how difficult that is and how much it costs depends on the model. Another option is to install a liner in the existing barrel, or even to ream it out and cut new rifling (of a larger diameter) in it. If it's just a problem with the muzzle crown, you can chop an inch or two off the end and cut a new crown, depending on the barrel's dimensions and whether it's chrome lined or not.

Should it be replaced? That's up to the owner. Rebarreling destroys any collectable value. It also costs money. Figure $200 or so for the barrel and another $100-$200 to install it, add in $100 for the rifle itself, and you could've purchased a new Savage that will probably outshoot it.
 
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