Small fixed blade in NYC

G

gnius

Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
413
I have read into the NYC criminal code several times, and as far as I can see, there is nothing that would stop you from carrying something like a Benchmade Activator (2.1" fixed blade).

Can someone verify that this is indeed the case?

Not that I actually want to EDC a fixed blade... but just to better understand the absurdity of weapons legislation.
 
Well, yes, technically NYC code does not specify if knives that may be carried are folding or fixed per se:
http://24.97.137.100/nyc/adcode/title10_10-133.asp

However, New York State Penal Law § 265.01 mentions the following:

(2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto, imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon with intent to use the same unlawfully against another;
Click to expand...

"Dagger" "Dirk" and sometimes "Stiletto" have this annoying habit of being interpreted in courts as "fixed blade knife."

Further, "[t]he possession by any person of any... dagger dirk, stiletto,...is presumptive evidence of intent to use the same unlawfully against another" (Penal Law § 265.15 [4])

Could argue one's way out in court for a singled edged fixed blade perhaps, but that leaves the rather nebulous "Dangerous Knife" which would could encompass such a knife depending on many factors.

Here is a case quote that may be helpful:

Matter of Jamie D., 59 NY2d 589 (1983). Whether a "knife" is a "dangerous" knife may be determined on the basis of three alternative considerations: one, its own characteristics which show that it is primarily intended for use as a weapon; second, a modification, which converts what would otherwise be a utensil into a weapon; and third, the circumstances of the possession which may reveal that the possessor considers it a weapon and not a utilitarian tool.
Click to expand...

However, all is not lost. I also found the following from People v. Edwards (2007)

With respect to the dagger, however, we find merit in defendant's argument that the conviction must be reversed. By establishing possession of the dagger, the People were entitled to the statutory presumption that defendant intended to use the dagger unlawfully, and were charged appropriately (see Penal Law § 265.15 [4] [emphasis added]). However, when weighed against the other circumstances of this case, we find that this bare presumption is insufficient to establish, beyond a reasonable doubt, that defendant possessed [*7] the dagger with intent to use it unlawfully. Indeed, the presumption is outweighed by the competing inference drawn from the manner in which the dagger was attached to the bed, i.e., in plain view and to permit easy access to one lying in the bed that the dagger was kept for self-defense, as a means of protection against an intruder. Accordingly, we find that defendant's conviction for criminal possession of the dagger was against the weight of the evidence.
Click to expand...

I'm refraining from rendering any solid conclusions on this, since I'm not a lawyer or NYPD. So other opinions on these quotations is welcome.
 
Last edited:
Not to mention that if an NYPD, PAP, Homeland Security or any other security officer sees you with a fixed blade, you will be harassed and your blade will be confiscated (who wants to deal with that?!). Carrying a knife in NYC requires a certain level of discretion that you don't have to worry about elsewhere.
 
In NYC any knife you carry is required to be completely concealed from view, so as not to "alarm" others. If a policeman sees a pocket clip, he can not only confiscate your lawfully possessed knife but actually arrest and incarcerate you for being in violation of municipal code prohibiting open carry of knives.

A small, single-edged, fixed-blade knife that is completely concealed should be fine -- especially if it lacks "tactical" features that make it appear weaponlike. And, if you are wrongfully harrassed, you'd have a case for false arrest and malicious prosecution.

Remember -- knife is required by law to be concealed from view while in NYC. As long as you abide by this law, how would anyone know you're carrying it?
 
glistam, that is an interesting quote on the dagger. In most of the cases I have seen, when NYSPL states "possession by any person" it has usally been interperted to mean "on" a person outside of their residence. This case seems to be different and I am left to wonder if the bed was in a hotel or the person was stating at a location other than their residenece. Does the case give that detail? The mere term possession in NY means that you have control over the item, and when the "by any person" is added all the ADAs I ever dealth with would consider that to be carried in public....
 
tom19176 said:
glistam, that is an interesting quote on the dagger. In most of the cases I have seen, when NYSPL states "possession by any person" it has usally been interperted to mean "on" a person outside of their residence. This case seems to be different and I am left to wonder if the bed was in a hotel or the person was stating at a location other than their residenece. Does the case give that detail? The mere term possession in NY means that you have control over the item, and when the "by any person" is added all the ADAs I ever dealth with would consider that to be carried in public....
Click to expand...

Yes, sorry I cannot provide a direct link (private database).

Edwards was in his own house, and the police arrived with a search warrant for firearms. Edwards was a convicted felon of prior weapon charges, but the actual cause for the search warrant is not explained in the case. In addition to the dagger, he had a throwing star, a billy club and a stun gun. He was convicted of all four in the lower court. The appeals court overturned the dagger conviction (stated above) but upheld his other convictions, so he's still in jail.

I was looking for cases where the defendant wasn't blatantly committing a crime (e.g. stabbing people or waving the knife and screaming "I'll kill you!") no easy task believe you me. This was only one I could find. The other posters mention of keeping concealed properly and behaving lawfully do wonders to avoid be arrested ;).

Also, my search is limited to appeals cases, because lower court cases are both too numerous to catalogue, and I'm pretty sure they they don't actually set precedent.

Will quoting "Edwards" fly in court for carrying on one's person in public? I haven't a clue. Personally I'd be terrified in NYC to carry anything short of a multiplier, SAK or my cane.
 
Thanks for the update. I will stick to my orginal understanding of possession based on what you added, as they were hunting and the lower court allowed a wide range to their view of the law....
 
gnius said:
I have read into the NYC criminal code several times, and as far as I can see, there is nothing that would stop you from carrying something like a Benchmade Activator (2.1" fixed blade).

Can someone verify that this is indeed the case?

Not that I actually want to EDC a fixed blade... but just to better understand the absurdity of weapons legislation.
Click to expand...

Here is a link that might help you. http://www.thehighroad.org/library/blades/knifelaws.html
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top