Smallish folders with tough steels, why?

JTR357

JTR357

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I have small folders & fixed blades with cpm-3V & Cruwear & I am starting to question myself, why? I mean the whole point of having a tough knife is to pry open tank doors & stuff, right? I can't see myself doing that with my Delica 4. It's something you'd tend to expect from a 4+ inch fixed blade. I guess I'm saying, what makes you attracted to having a tough steel in a small blade? I myself just love cpm-3V. I love the way it sharpens & I love the way it cuts (with good geometry of course). I've noticed my Cruwear Delica doesn't hold an edge like my S90V one though. I don't have an answer for this. In fact, there is no right or wrong answer, this is just meant for discussion among us knife-knuts & why we want it.
 
Because that's how we roll. It's (apparently) ingrained in our knife DNA.

(We want cars and trucks with specs which exceed what we will do with them, it's no different with knives. Besides, it's fun to watch the envelope being pushed...and to participate in it.)

The search for "balance"...or peak performance is never-ending.
 
Knives cut best with thin edges. Thin edges will deform without sufficient hardness. Higher hardness means reduced toughness. Thin edges will chip without sufficient toughness. Therefore toughness can be beneficial even for small knives.
 
JTR357 said:
I have small folders & fixed blades with cpm-3V & Cruwear & I am starting to question myself, why? I mean the whole point of having a tough knife is to pry open tank doors & stuff, right? I can't see myself doing that with my Delica 4. It's something you'd tend to expect from a 4+ inch fixed blade. I guess I'm saying, what makes you attracted to having a tough steel in a small blade? I myself just love cpm-3V. I love the way it sharpens & I love the way it cuts (with good geometry of course). I've noticed my Cruwear Delica doesn't hold an edge like my S90V one though. I don't have an answer for this. In fact, there is no right or wrong answer, this is just meant for discussion among us knife-knuts & why we want it.
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For me it means I can grind the bugger thinner . Thinner at the spine cuts better too .
e.g. I have a Kizer Feist :
Reverse Tanto 70 mm edge length.
3V
I took the spine thickness from 3mm to 1.5mm and thinner behind the edge while I was at it .
Green Micarta but looks like coarse Burlap (plenty nice though) .
She makes me smile . . . now . . .

Another example , that I had in pocket today :
Spyderco Delica
HAP 40 clad with SUS 410 (I'm telling my self that since this is clad it is tougher; at least in the body of the blade) .
are you ready ?
you're not ready . I'll give you a few minutes to prepare mentally . . . .
It was 2.45 mm at the spine ; it is now 1.25 mm ! Wharncliffe too . 66mm edge length .

I have seven or eight Delicas and this is the only one I have thinned like this .
I've had this thinned HAP 40 for a little over six years .
Some how it still pleases me .

Full disclosure before you tell me it can't possibly have much SUS410 left (and you'd be right); I thinned it by cutting away all the blade from the bottom of the thumb opening hole upward .
Blade width 12.5 mm .
And yes It is now waved. Dambed dangerous knife when clipped to pocket , it'll open even when all you meant to do was take the knife out of your pocket to switch pants. I tend to carry it in bottom of pocket or in a slip .
[hey how about that ! I found the old image here from back in the day}
1748213145524.jpeg

. . . oh you think that's crazy and over doing things ; I could mention the Spyderco Centofante 3 that I full flat ground ; took off all of that supposed "magic" hollow grind . . . but that is only VG10 and another story for some other time.
 
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I think one reason maybe that non-knife people tend to pry on things with their knives, especially smaller knives that look like bottle openers or sharp pry bars. So with a small knife the thing to do may be to have a steel that will survive some of that kind of treatment. Also the longer the blade the more force it will apply when being used as a pry bar, so a smaller knife can use a tougher, thinner (aka cheaper) steel and still survive some abuse.
 
I don't see any issue with it. My EDC is usually a Para 3 in Cruwear. Sub 3" blade in a steel thought to be one for hard use.

I don't abuse it, but I do like the fact that I can get a relatively thin blade that holds an edge and holds up to the things I do at work. The stuff I cut at work does not require a large knife nor does it really require prying. It's just nice to know that I have a steel that can take some real world use and not need much in the way of extensive maintenance.

I really can't think of a better EDC knife for my needs, and I can't think of a better combo of blade length, stock thickness, cutting performance, and steel behavior that fits me.
 
Redundancy or overkill is nice to have. I’d rather have a small knife that’s “needlessly tough” than have a “whoopsy daisy your knife broke please leave the forge” moment when I’m simply using the knife as intended. If I’m carrying a small knife, most likely that’s the only knife on my person. I can’t afford for it to break.

Also, I don’t have this issue since my main small knife uses 1095 steel. 1095 is supposedly less tough than the average grandma’s shin bones.
 
donnord said:
I think one reason maybe that non-knife people tend to pry on things with their knives, especially smaller knives that look like bottle openers or sharp pry bars. So with a small knife the thing to do may be to have a steel that will survive some of that kind of treatment. Also the longer the blade the more force it will apply when being used as a pry bar, so a smaller knife can use a tougher, thinner (aka cheaper) steel and still survive some abuse.
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Those people don't spend the extra $$$ on higher end steels.
 
So for some of us, the knife we can carry has a bunch of constraints. I can easily carry any slippy, and so I'm happy that the "mid-grade" steels I can get now are objectively better than 400 series stainless at a minimal markup. Sure I'm not going to get the latest with what I want, but to be fair, I remember when D2 was a supersteel, and I'll take a small slippy in S30V any day of the week, but it took D2 becoming the big dog to do that for me. I have a small knife that doesn't get a lot of use, but did at one point in time, in H1, that doesn't happen unless someone pushes the market, and while LC200n is "better" I don't think we get there without the effort. I cannot legally carry a locker without "legal reason" I'm not a gambler (because I know it will be a gamble made on the behalf of others) so i'm very careful about where I carry. But I could probably talk my way past a cop with a locker under 2 inch. So if I knew I needed that, and had the money, sure. But I can certainly talk my way past carrying a longer slippy like a ukpk, and very happy to have one in the steel it's in.
 
The performance of the steels in the "tough" category are the best for my needs and preferences. I don't go out of my way to buy the toughest steel I can for my folder but the attributes I choose put the steels and knives in that class. 3V, 4V, Cruwear, M4hc, etc all perform and sharpen and resist corrosion with the "balance" I want. I don't chase the highest wear resistance I can get because "super steel" . I do think of 3V and Cruwear as super steels every bit as much as I do 10V/A11 class up to Maxamet . Compared to the knives and steels I had access to when it all began for me using knives in the late 1960's all of the above are indeed super.

I have pretty much always been a non stainless guy but Larrin's Magnucut steel design has finally changed that. The attributes I desire in a very corrosion resistant steel has to me been near revolutionary. I'm very much looking forward to the next steel in his lineup. . If he can get near K390/A11 cutting and slicing performance in a stainless steel and retain the sharpen-ability and edge stability of the better tool steels it seems to me a new name or class might be needed. "Super steel" just won't cut it anymore.
 
I think there are good arguments for and against having tough steel in folders and that there is no right or wrong answer. I think there is a place for all the different steels. Ive tried a lot of different super steels and really like some of them. However, I can get by with the most basic steels in my day to day life and have thinned the collection accordingly.
 
Larrin said:
Knives cut best with thin edges. Thin edges will deform without sufficient hardness. Higher hardness means reduced toughness. Thin edges will chip without sufficient toughness. Therefore toughness can be beneficial even for small knives.
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This. I like thin edges and thin blades because they cut better. Tougher steels make this possible.
 
This is kind of off topic but reflects my tastes and habits :
in another forum Scandi Grind wrote :

However, I am always trying to find the limit of how far I can push the performance in my knives. I recently experimented using a paring knife as a camp knife and was surprised at well it handled the role for a relatively thin blade. Not the thinnest, think German style parer, but thinner than my Endura for sure.
 
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