Smart Meters

[UffDa]

There is a huge flap in our area over "smart" electric meters. Our power provider is systematically replacing all the old style meters with new ones that communicate with the company via cell phone systems. (I assume that's how they do it) People are complaining bitterly that their electric bills are double and triple what they paid with their old meter. APS claims that many of the old meters were running slow. With the new system you can check your daily use online. I have been doing that and see very little difference from the same period last year. My old meter was about 10 years old. Many of the meters in Prescott are probably 30 to 50 years old, so the claim about them running slow may be valid.

From what I understand, meters are being replaced nationwide. There is some paranoia regarding these meters. People seem to think that the power companies can now spy on them and shut their power off remotely.

I'm curious if anyone here has had any experience with the new meters?

 

[MikeH]

Rats! I am a retired Metering Services manager at a Southern Company system utility, and I just spent half an hour typing a short course on smart meters here, only to lose it when my wireless network went down. I am about to have to leave, and cannot do this again until Sunday. Sorry about that!

All I will repeat here is that no one is seeing double or triple the amount of useage just from having their mechanical meter replaced with an electronic (smart) meter, unless the utility was doing a terrible job with their meter inspection/test program. I suspect that large changes in bills may be due to the rate changes that are usually the driver for installing smart meters.

Later.

 

[Gollnick]

We got "smart" meters about a year ago. My bill actually went down. The old meter was apparently running fast... or the smart meter is a bit slow.

The nice thing is that the meter reader doesn't track through the yard once a month and leave the gate open on his way. Now, PGE drives through the neighborhood and reads the meters via low-power radio.

The gas company actually beat 'em to it, though. They changed us to "smart" meters about two years ago. Fortunately, my water meter is right at the street. So, no more meter readers tracking through the lawn at all.

 

[Bufford]

The new smart meters were installed here over two years ago, and yes they are as accurate as the old meters. My meter was 30 years old and nothing was wrong with it and has appeared to be honest (that is if the new smart meter is honest).

The new meters were installed for the reason to profit on individuals, families as well as businesses, inorder to funnel money into corporate and government coffers here in Ontario Canada which has effectively doubled or even trippled rate payers electric bills. Secondly, smart meters give utilities and governments (and hackers) a valuable tool to be able to track your energy consumption. They know when and how much power you are using. They will also be able to know when you are home and when you are not by tracking consumption patterns.

In short these meters provide alot of private information about you and your daily consumption habits/patterns.

The whole concept of Smart Metering is to track our usage habits and to increase profits by charging people more when they need power such as at supper time and during daylight hours. During the night or what is refered to as 'off peak,' rates are lower because people are using less.

Smart meters have been a great success for utilities and government, by providing them huge increases in revenues, while burdening home owners and businesses with inflated electric bills and the expences of switching to appiances that use alternative forms of fuel.

It is getting to the point that electricity is unaffordable as a result. The economy here is at an all time low, and people are struggling like never before. Now add the fact that they recently placed a VAT tax of 13% on top of the cost of electricity and heating fuels last year for even more finacial pain.

 

[UffDa]

What is really pissing people in this area off is that they are told that they have no choice. The smart meters WILL be installed. Some have claimed that APS reps have told them that if they refuse to allow the installation of the new meters, their power will be shut off. That is a lie. There is a 2005 law that says the smart meters are optional and even the power company's web site says that you can opt out for a fee.

Two more things that are pissing people off. First is that they still have to pay the meter reader fee even though a person doesn't have to come out to their house to read the meter. 2nd is that the power co. can and will sell information on your power usage. People are already being contacted by Home Depot and other companies trying to sell them insulation, new appliances, better windows, etc, etc.

 

[Gollnick]

The electric company has the right to bill you. Assuming that it's approved by your state's weights and measures authority, I'm not sure you have any right to say what mechanism will be used for that billing.

 

[UffDa]

The electric company has the right to bill you. Assuming that it's approved by your state's weights and measures authority, I'm not sure you have any right to say what mechanism will be used for that billing.

I think that you may be missing the point. New technology scares some people. They also do not like the fact that it's being done without their consent. There are lot of old people in the greater Prescott area with various health problems and they seem to think that the new meter will mess up their pace makers, ceiling fans, microwave ovens, telephones, TV, etc. I'm not making this up. People have called the local radio talk show about these concerns. One old guy claims that his ceiling fans are running twice as fast since the new meter was installed. Other people are afraid that the power company can shut off their electricity remotely. (They can't)

 

[Mike G]

We had these new meters installed earlier in the year.

My power bill went down for a couple months before the new rate took effect.

I really don't have any issue with them at all.

 

[CARRERA50]

What is really pissing people in this area off is that they are told that they have no choice. The smart meters WILL be installed. Some have claimed that APS reps have told them that if they refuse to allow the installation of the new meters, their power will be shut off. That is a lie. There is a 2005 law that says the smart meters are optional and even the power company's web site says that you can opt out for a fee.

Two more things that are pissing people off. First is that they still have to pay the meter reader fee even though a person doesn't have to come out to their house to read the meter. 2nd is that the power co. can and will sell information on your power usage. People are already being contacted by Home Depot and other companies trying to sell them insulation, new appliances, better windows, etc, etc.

Many communities in the SF bay area have sued PG&E re Smart Meters. Bills have sharply rises for no reason, with the power company claiming no wrong-doing. People have a
right to fear hi tech, especially when it is forced upon them by a POS company like PG&E. Ask the folks in Burlingame.

 

[Gollnick]

Electric rates are set by the state. If you have been enjoying improperly-low bills for some time at the expense of the electric company because your mechanical meter was not working correctly, don't be upset if the electric company replaces that malfunctioning meter with a new one that works properly and your bill goes up. The rate has not changes, it is just being accurately measured now.

And as for the old man and his ceiling fan, I suspect that there's a knob on the wall that got turned.

 

[UffDa]

And as for the old man and his ceiling fan, I suspect that there's a knob on the wall that got turned.

I suspect it's the knob on top of his neck that malfunctioned.

Some of the newer ceiling fans have some rather sophisticated remote controls. My first thought was that the controls reset when his power was shut off.*
My second thought was just lying.


* If there is a power failure, the lights on our ceiling fans which were off turn on when power is restored.

 

[Gollnick]

I
Some of the newer ceiling fans have some rather sophisticated remote controls. My first thought was that the controls reset when his power was shut off.

Good thinking. I suspect that you are correct.

 

[Codger_64]

I've had the new meter for several years. I don't note any change in my bill other than due to periodic rate increases. My bill has columns that give breakdowns of my energy usage. I find it helpful in reducing my bill. It tells me the current billing days, KWH used, daily average use. The same figures are given for the previous month and one year ago. By leaving my new (digital electronic controlled) window (wall mounted) air conditioner running 24/7 a few degrees higher than last year, I have reduced my energy bill by nearly 100KWH. per month. Last year I turned it off when gone and cranked it up when I returned. The one unit cools my entire two bedroom 925 sqft house with no insulation, a metal roof and antique (circa 1938-42) windows and doors.

And yes, Rita Meter Maid has to get out of her truck if she wants to turn off my meter, but reads it with her tricorder from the street.

 

[UffDa]

And yes, Rita Meter Maid has to get out of her truck if she wants to turn off my meter, but reads it with her tricorder from the street.

That's the way my old meter worked. It was read from a moving vehicle. The new meters that people are bitching about transmit data via cell phone type technology.
No meter readers required.

 

[Mike G]

That's the way my old meter worked. It was read from a moving vehicle. The new meters that people are bitching about transmit data via cell phone type technology.
No meter readers required.

We must be behind the times, then. Our new meters are read from the truck. The old ones were mechanical requiring eyes on the meter.

 

[Codger_64]

We must be behind the times, then. Our new meters are read from the truck. The old ones were mechanical requiring eyes on the meter.

Ditto. The old ones had the slowly revolving horizontal mechanical disc and multiple vertical pointer dials. our new ones are all digital. I am on TVA hydropower and our rates do not involve periodic fuel cost adjustments.

I would much rather someone be able to read my meter than touch my junk. Given the choice between the two, meters seem rather low on the privacy priorities.

 

[UffDa]

A picture is worth a 1000 words. I did some more searching and found that the Canadian version of this meter transmits in the 900MHz range. I don't think that it is the exact same meter.
The LCD displays 4 different sets of letters and numbers. Some look like KW hours. I'll have to take notes and see if they correspond to the info on the power company web-site.

Today is the first time I watched the meter for over a few seconds. I never noticed that it displayed anything other then the codes.

 

[Gollnick]

Mine cycles through displaying its serial/ID number, a status code, and the cumulative kilowatt-hour record. The gas meter does basically the same thing. I know that both record more-detailed information and can transmit those data to the utility. That thing to the left of the display with two dots in it is an optical interface to communicate with a hand-held non-radio meter if the radio interface fails.

The gas meter only displays about once per minute. The electric meter obviously has an electric source. But the gas meter actually has a battery in it with an expected life of ten years.

 

[Boberama]

There is a huge flap in our area over "smart" electric meters. Our power provider is systematically replacing all the old style meters with new ones that communicate with the company via cell phone systems. (I assume that's how they do it) People are complaining bitterly that their electric bills are double and triple what they paid with their old meter. APS claims that many of the old meters were running slow. With the new system you can check your daily use online. I have been doing that and see very little difference from the same period last year. My old meter was about 10 years old. Many of the meters in Prescott are probably 30 to 50 years old, so the claim about them running slow may be valid.

From what I understand, meters are being replaced nationwide. There is some paranoia regarding these meters. People seem to think that the power companies can now spy on them and shut their power off remotely.

I'm curious if anyone here has had any experience with the new meters?

No experience apart from being in the same situation as you in BC.

The government legislated the introduction of smart meters. They have yet to start installing.

The smart meters can detect the unique load signatures of devices in your house, so they could technically see what you are using and when. The smart meters can also apparently track the movement of RFID tags near them.

The smart meters can be used to shut off power remotely and accurately.

There are no significant savings in replacing the old meters.

Also, the World Health Organization has found that the types of signals broadcast by smart meters may increase the effect of carcinogens and certain tumours.

In BC, the most ardent supporters of the smart meters are large companies. Google apparently supports smart meters. It certainly seems like these smart meters could be used for data collection or statistics, whether by the government, the power company or corporations.

The smart meters may also be easier in terms of stealing electricity and breaking into the system, allowing others to see data. The smart meters use the same sort of security found in many online banking setups.

What the banks don't tell you is how many breaches there have been. It is NOT uncommon.




I don't like the smart meters.

 

[Gollnick]

The smart meters can detect the unique load signatures of devices in your house, so they could technically see what you are using and when.

Speaking as an electrical engineer, I can assure you, No. Yes, maybe... maybe... if you have only one thing on in your house and it is very distinctive. But even that would be tough. Your household wiring is actually fairly complicated, multiple branch circuits with multiple segments, difficult to model. So, I call b.s. on this one.

The smart meters can also apparently track the movement of RFID tags near them.

I'm gonna call b.s. on this too. First of all, RFID tags are not homogenous. There are dozens of standards and even more non-standard types. Second, RFID tags work by absorbing rf energy from the reader and using it to "reflect" back an ID code. The amount of power available is tiny and so the range is just a few feet. Third, to do this your meter would have to be an "intentional emitter." That puts it in a whole new regulatory class which I doubt it is labeled for; mine isn't. And, finally, reading RFID tags is expensive and I just can't believe anyone would want that enough to pay to put it in every meter.

The smart meters can be used to shut off power remotely and accurately.

Well no. B.S. on that one too. There are 200Amps flowing into a typical house. Interrupting that is non-trivial. A semiconductor to do it would dissipate too much heat. An electeomechanical relay would be too expensive.