Smoke and Mirrors

bladeprince

bladeprince

Joined
Jun 12, 2006
Messages
956
These knive are just too close in price and looks for two different companies to have made them using two different designers. I think they are all in bed with each other one way or another. Don't forget, their main goal is profit.

Kershaw Commemorative
http://knifeoutlet.com/shop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=KER1050ANN

Hattori Company 30th Aniversary Limited Edition
http://www.japaneseknifedirect.com/HattoriCompany30thAniversaryLimitedEdition.html

We all know about the ripoffs but I've never seen what appears to be one at this price level before.
 
I would suggest there is just one designer and two marketing ventures. Some of Kershaw's production comes from the far East, no?
 
bladeprince said:
These knive are just too close in price and looks for two different companies to have made them using two different designers. I think they are all in bed with each other one way or another. Don't forget, their main goal is profit.

Kershaw Commemorative
http://knifeoutlet.com/shop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=KER1050ANN

Hattori Company 30th Aniversary Limited Edition
http://www.japaneseknifedirect.com/HattoriCompany30thAniversaryLimitedEdition.html

We all know about the ripoffs but I've never seen what appears to be one at this price level before.
Click to expand...

Kershaw has been selling this knife for years, (not with a damascus blade) They contract it's manufacture in Japan I don't even think it's a Kershaw design.

The Hattori is a well respecdted company and probably the manufacturer Kershaw hires the job out to. It might even be their design. The Hattori ad says it's a 30th anniversary, That sounds about like the time I first saw this knife for sale.

I doubt there is any ripoff going on, (except for the person who pays $400+ for the second knife)
 
Kershaw is owned by Kai Cutlery of Japan. Perhaps they shared the design or licensed it to Hattori.

There is nothing nefarious about two different companies sharing a design. Darrell Ralph has designs made by himself, by Camillus, and by ... S&W! Similar to almost identical models.

What does "in bed with each other" mean? Emerson and Benchmade, Emerson and Spyderco, Strider and Buck, Strider and kershaw, all cooperated on knives. Of course they are in it for the money. Did you think they made all these knives because they love us? :D
 
Doesn't bother me they're both nice looking knives. If that's what comes out of going to bed with each other maybe they should do it more often.
 
I just remebered, the Janus, a collaboration between Allan Elishewitz and Pat Crawford. Each made a certain number of custom versions, each made their version in their own style, of the same basic handle/blade shape.

I wouldn't mind seeing more of that sort of thing.
 
I used to have the standard Kershaw version (1050) of this knife back around '87, it was made in Japan back then, too. It was very well made with great fit and finish. It was so nice, the movers couldn't resist stealing it when they were packing me up. It's a shame they now cost nearly twice what they did in '87, because I'd like to buy a replacement.
 
When Kai Cutlery purchaed Kershaw many years ago, new designs were added to the line by some of the makers in Seki that Kai was using. Ichiro Hattori, Moki, Seto, Nakamura, etc.) All excellent makers.

Ichiro Hattori (the oldest brother of 3 Hattori factories in Seki) is considered one of the best grinders in Seki (His daughter is an excellent knifemakers as well). Ichiro designed the model shown above for Kai / Kershaw and also produced the model for them for many years.

Ichiro Hattori has his own knife business in addition to the knives he produces for other companies. He also has made versions of his models in his own factory for Japanese sales. Usually higher line.

Hope that helps.

sal
 
We all know about the ripoffs but I've never seen what appears to be one at this price level before.
Click to expand...

Bladeprince, a little additional education for you, Kai took control of Kershaw Knives back in 1977, the knife in question here has been manufactured for 30 plus years. Sal explained (very well I might add) the relationship between not only Kai and Hattori, but some of the other manufacturer's in Japan as well (I trust you have heard of them). Sal would also be a good one to voice a general overview on Japanese manufacturers, a little of their history, along with what and how they assist the west in the production of knives.

I'm unsure if you truly understand those relationships, as well as the culture and integrity that goes along with knifemaking in Japan, otherwise I'm sure you would have left off your above commentary.

Hopefully Sal will again chime in, as he has decade’s worth of knowledge and background with his extensive experience with multiple manufacturers in Japan, plus Sal can just always tell a damn good story.

Personally speaking, the Kai corporation is filled with extremely talented business people, of whom are very driven and understand their objectives. We all also strive to be the best we can be, everyday.
We did not get to the position we are currently in by "appearing to be rip-off’s", even with just one knife.
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As mentioned above, it was my understanding that knife was made by Hattori for Kershaw. No "rip-off".
 
Just found in such site you were linking this line: "Ichiro Hattori, 63 years old craftsman, was involved with knife making at the age of 18 when he joined his father's knife company "Masahiro". In 1971, he has opened his own workshop and started producing high quality Hunting knives for export with buyers brands including Kershaw, Browning, Beretta, Tekna etc. "

Here is the link if you care to inform yourself: http://www.japaneseknifedirect.com/Hattori.html
 
Thank you to Sal and Thomas (and everyone else) for the info. I did not mean to question the integrity of any company. The word "ripoff" was too strong for this situation plus my lack of historical knowledge.

Regards
 
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