Snake bites

D

DE-SO bloke

Joined
Oct 10, 2001
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37
To my understanding snake bites are amongst the worst hazards posed to someone when isolated in the wilderness (especially when in the jungles of my country) and unless u have the antidote with u there isn't much u can do apart from taking the victim to a hospital asap, what not always is possible. For the last six months or so, I have carried in my kit The Extractor in the hopes of providing some extra care. Fortunately I haven't had any need for it yet. Has anyone ever used it in a real situation, and if so how effective it really is?
 
In the last six months there have been several threads on rattlesnake strikes. One of our physician members contributed some extremely detailed and useful information. You should try checking the archives for the threads. With regard to the Extractor, my recollection is that experts are uncertain whether it is very effective. However, so long as you don't cut before using it, there seems to be no harm. If you use one, it needs to be deployed quickly.
 
Well, I don't know much about your country but in the USA snakes are not really very high on the "wilderness threat" list. I read somewhere that more people die from bee-stings in the USA than snake-bites. And I believe most snake-bites occur in suburban settings (like in back yards, golf courses, picnic areas, parks, under houses, ect).
When I go into the woods I really worry more about the little creatures like bees, Ticks (lyme disease), and mosquitos (now that we have West Nile Fever over here).

Of course I have never been in a jungle...I think you guys even have poisonous frogs down there.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
We had some Aussie SAS guys come up and train with us a while back. They showed us a great technique for dealing with envenomations. Wrapping the effected limb with an ace wrap, distal to proximal (far from the body to near) really slows down the spread of venom and gives you a much larger window to get the snake bite victim to a hospital.

When you are bitten, unless the fangs happen to end exactly in a vein, the venom goes into your soft tissue. It is your lymph system that transports the venom. By compressing your lymphatics with the ace wrap yoy are slowing that venom's spread. There is no need to tighten the ace wrap to the point of cutting off blood flow, just tight enough to flatten the lymphatic ducts.

I've thankfully not had to try this, but discussion with the Aussies and some physicians has verified this to be a very effective adjunct for treatment.

Dan
 
I would agree with the ace bandage technique if the venom were a very "hot" neurotoxin likely to kill the patient if not treated. I'm not sure what type of venom is the principal threat in Brazil. However, in the case of most rattler strikes, our local physicians are ambivalent about the ace bandage technique. Preventing the spread of the venom concentrates it in the area of the strike and can allow the tissue-destroying enzymes to do massive damage. There have been some horribly deformed limbs from restricting movement of rattler venom. Had it been allowed to circulate, the statistical evidence strongly suggests that it would not have been fatal. However, if the venom were really hot (like, for example, a Mojave rattler), it might be better to sacrifice the limb than risk the consequences of the venom spreading.

Are there any physicians still active in the Forum who might add their expertise?
 
My favorite quote from a toxicologist I trained under

Q: What is the best first aid for snakebites in the field?

A: Keys to a car in good working order and enough gas to make it to the hospital!


My humble suggestions:

1. Don't panic

2. Constricting bands and tourniquets are discouraged.

3. The extractor has shown promise in animal trials but I have not seen any recent papers showing a human benfit (although they may exist). You must do it quickly. Don't suck the wound with your mouth...yuck!

4. Immobilization of the limb (like a fracture) can delay systemic absorption of the venom and can be beneficial

5. Pressure immobilization has shown promise in elapid bites (neurotoxin snakes ie coral) but crotalid (pit viper: rattlers and such) has not shown as much benefit and may? (BIG question mark) be harmful (a study on one type of rattler showed that, not sure which one). I will have to look into that topic again.

6. Get thee to a hospital

7. Anti venom can make the patients blood pressure go down and can shoot the doctors BP way up (its not benign stuff, at least the old horse sera based stuff). Where I trained we had lots of rattle snake bites and curiously people often brought the snake with them, only one time was it alive!!!!

8. prevention: don't try to pick up the snake, especially when drunk: by far the number one cause of bites I see
 
Originally posted by bandaidman
don't try to pick up the snake, especially when drunk:
Click to expand...

Bwa ha ha ha! Oh that is so true!

Yup - I bet a bunch of bites are preceeded by the phrase "hey ya'll - lookit this!"

About the Hemotoxic and tissue-destroying enzymes properties, life over limb was the idea (or not knowing which type you were dealing with) Certainly something to think about before any treatment - consider what type of venom you are dealing with, thanks :)

Dan
 
Thanks guys for your suggestions.
In Brazil about 85% of all recorded snake bite cases were done by "Jararacas" and their relatives. They r very aggressive snakes from the Bothrops family, which live in the humid rainforests camouflaging themselves very well under the folliage. Their venom acts locally and any kind of pressure imobilization would certainly result in necrosis. The recommended treatment is to do exactly the opposite. You want to make that venom spread through the whole body making it weaker and letting your defensive system fight it. So if bitten one must lift the affected area up allowing the blood to flow. Rest and a lot of drinking water r also necessary.
Corals r quite common as well, but their mouths r very small and their fangs are fixed making it very difficult for it to bite. So they r not the main threat around here. And rattlers r easier to be seen than the bothrops as they live in arid climate areas and r a bit noisier.
Certainly, taking the victm to a hospital is the best treatment but unfortunatelly not always possible. Specially in a survival situation.

Cheers. :)
 
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